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Thread: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #11
    FORT Fanatic Holly in SoCal's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat;4027214;
    Just watched and I thought I'd be really disappointed that Nicole didn't make the final, but I like Peregrine as well.
    Anyone but Jackie.

    Jackie seemed to give up this episode. Rather than do her best and lose (which would be a hit to her already fragile ego) she choose to do a lackluster job and blame it on everything but herself. A real cop-out. Well, good riddance, and I hope she grows a little and gains some sense of self-awareness.
    I think the reason Jackie gave up on this episode is because she couldn't incorporate herself (naked) into this project. That seems to be the only way she can do any art...she has to be in it and she has to be exposing herself. Not very well-rounded as an artist...no pun intended!! Actually she may have a little too much "self-awareness"! I know we have become very "aware" of her "naked" self!!! LOL

  2. #12
    FORT Fogey Harvest's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat;4027214;
    I RESPECT an artist IMMENSELY when they put the time and effort into honing those skills. Miles creates a lot of black and white square/rectangle drawings which don't take the kind of skill Abdi does with realistic drawings.
    JMO, but I enjoy Abdi's works better time and again for those reasons.


    I was so impressed by Abdi's drawing, but I have to say I was a little jealous, because I wondered how in the world he ever learned how to do that. I used to try and take art classes and practically begged the "instructors" to teach me something, but they never taught anything whatsoever. They just set up a scene and had us draw it, then everything would be pinned to the wall afterwards and the students critiqued each others' work. There was never any actual teaching of any techniques going on. How Adbi learned to draw such realistic figures, with such perfect skin and lighting, etc., is a mystery to me, as I have never seen an art "teacher" actually teach anything! So yes, impressed by him, but sad for me, and bitter.

    Btw, not that it makes a difference to the art, but Peregrine and Abdi both seem like nice people, so I am glad they are both in the finale.

  3. #13
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Spider Solitaire Arkadium Champion, Doyu Gems Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvest;4028928;


    I was so impressed by Abdi's drawing, but I have to say I was a little jealous, because I wondered how in the world he ever learned how to do that. I used to try and take art classes and practically begged the "instructors" to teach me something, but they never taught anything whatsoever. They just set up a scene and had us draw it, then everything would be pinned to the wall afterwards and the students critiqued each others' work. There was never any actual teaching of any techniques going on. How Adbi learned to draw such realistic figures, with such perfect skin and lighting, etc., is a mystery to me, as I have never seen an art "teacher" actually teach anything! So yes, impressed by him, but sad for me, and bitter.

    Btw, not that it makes a difference to the art, but Peregrine and Abdi both seem like nice people, so I am glad they are both in the finale.
    We had a very similar experience then! I only took one art class in university (drawing) and that's exactly what we did. Drew something as instructed and then the students critiqued each other. I picked up a few basic tricks (light is best defined sometimes by drawing nothing at all... for example, if top of the persons hair is lit by "light", shade around that part and the viewers eye will finish the drawing. I'm not sure that even made sense, lol, but little things like that). What I've heard is drawing is talent combined with constant practice. Artists never put down their pencils.

    It sounds really juvenile but one of the best ways to learn realistic drawing is by taking the picture they are drawing and making a grid of it. The artist really learns how to break down what they are seeing into small parts so they can properly tranfer the minute details. That wouldn't be considered "art" I guess, but does make great practice.

  4. #14
    Miz Smarty Britches queenb's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat;4029212;
    It sounds really juvenile but one of the best ways to learn realistic drawing is by taking the picture they are drawing and making a grid of it. The artist really learns how to break down what they are seeing into small parts so they can properly tranfer the minute details. That wouldn't be considered "art" I guess, but does make great practice.
    You are correct--that isn't art, it is "copying"--an exact copy of a photo might as well be one. And it's not good practice either, in my opinion. Good practice comes from drawing real, three dimmensional ( sp?) objects or bodies. After getting really good at life drawing, then it's ok to use some photos as a reference, but not to be exactingly copied, unless you are for whatever reason still doing photo-realism the way that has been done over and over since Chuck Close started it (Chuck does not do it anymore either, not in the same way)

    And I disagree that doing realistic work is so much harder than abstractions of any kind. It's hard to put an emotion or message you want to convey into a piece so that people get those feelings without being told what it's supposed to convey. But most non-artists do think "oh, but it's easier to just throw paint around" as if there are no choices to be made.

    I know it sounds weird and may come as a shock to those who think art classes should consist of "now, you draw a nose this way" (and you can get that kind of class at one of those community art classes) that even though so much gesture drawing, non-figurative work, and such takes place in university art classes, if you stick with it and just do as you are told, you will learn to 'see' (proportions, perspective, light and shadow, all of that)better, handle your materials better, and will improve your respresentational ability tremendously in the process. That way, when you are finished, if you want to draw, oh-lets say, a giraffe or arangutan, you can do better that the average Joe who "can really draw animals!", because you have been taught to haave that eye for proportion, balance, and composition. University art instructors assume you have had the old "eyes are one eye apart,, just like you should already know sentence structure and should not have to be taught it in a college level English course. an average body is seven to seven and a half heads tall" lessons already.

    If you notice, Abdi obviously has had lots of life drawing experience; when they show him drawing, he isn't using little hesitant markings and erasing every ten seconds trying to get an exact representation.

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat;4029212;
    (light is best defined sometimes by drawing nothing at all... for example, if top of the persons hair is lit by "light", shade around that part and the viewers eye will finish the drawing. I'm not sure that even made sense, lol, but little things like that). .
    Ahem--you will remember when I say it-- that's called negative space. And yep, it's always one of the first things they always teach you, in hopes that you will stop wanting to draw a big fat outline around any object you are trying to give definition to.
    Last edited by queenb; 08-09-2010 at 02:28 PM.
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  5. #15
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Spider Solitaire Arkadium Champion, Doyu Gems Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by queenb
    And I disagree that doing realistic work is so much harder than abstractions of any kind. It's hard to put an emotion or message you want to convey into a piece so that people get those feelings without being told what it's supposed to convey. But most non-artists do think "oh, but it's easier to just throw paint around" as if there are no choices to be made.
    Oh, I wasn't saying that at all. I was comparing Miles work to Abdi's. I have yet to see Miles throw paint around.

    Quote Originally Posted by queenb
    I know it sounds weird and may come as a shock to those who think art classes should consist of "now, you draw a nose this way" (and you can get that kind of class at one of those community art classes) that even though so much gesture drawing, non-figurative work, and such takes place in university art classes, if you stick with it and just do as you are told, you will learn to 'see' (proportions, perspective, light and shadow, all of that)better, handle your materials better, and will improve your respresentational ability tremendously in the process.
    So, practice, that's what I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by queenb
    Ahem--you will remember when I say it-- that's called negative space. And yep, it's always one of the first things they always teach you, in hopes that you will stop wanting to draw a big fat outline around any object you are trying to give definition to.
    You're right! I do remember... now.

    As for grid work, my daughter rarely shaded her drawings, and had difficulty with it. She tried grid work, and suddenly "got it". Now she shades all her drawings, without the grid. Maybe you're right, and it's not good practice, but it was an excellent stepping stone for her. And I'm talking about beginning artists, not ones who have been around the block a while. There are many adults who would like to learn drawing, but still draw like the did when they were young because of lack of practice.
    I do admire Abdi's freedom while he's drawing (not painstaking) but he has accomplished that for all the reasons I stated... years of learning skills and practice. I do respect that.
    Last edited by spockwhat; 08-09-2010 at 03:02 PM.

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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I am really hopin Abi will win !

    I can't stand Miles....his idea of "mustard gas" was scary.....there is something really disturbed about him

    Maybe I am different but I liked some of Jackie's stuff....there was never a competition where she got to do the sort of realistic works I saw in her portfolio....I feel she is really talented

    Peregrine's little "paper dolls" looked silly.....I thought hers was the worst of the group

    as for the "Micmac"...?? She explained the Native American connection....the piece was just very little and looked a lot like a school project of some sort to me

    I really loved Abdi's self portrait....gosh I hope he wins

  7. #17
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I am really hopin Abi will win !

    I can't stand Miles....his idea of "mustard gas" was scary.....there is something really disturbed about him

    Maybe I am different but I liked some of Jackie's stuff....there was never a competition where she got to do the sort of realistic works I saw in her portfolio....I feel she is really talented

    Peregrine's little "paper dolls" looked silly.....I thought hers was the worst of the group

    as for the "Micmac"...?? She explained the Native American connection....the piece was just very little and looked a lot like a school project of some sort to me

    I really loved Abdi's self portrait....gosh I hope he wins

  8. #18
    FORT Fogey Harvest's Avatar
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    Re: Work of Art 8/4 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by estygal4;4032050;
    I can't stand Miles....his idea of "mustard gas" was scary.....there is something really disturbed about him
    ...
    Peregrine's little "paper dolls" looked silly.....I thought hers was the worst of the group
    Yeah, the mustard gas was over the line creepy.

    I seem to recall that the "paper dolls" were the result of some suggestion that Miles made - not the first time he has tried to tamper with another artist's vision. Is he deliberately trying to sabotage? Thank god it did not result in her going home.

    I think of the cheftestant on Top Chef who is always so suspicious of everyone - they need someone like her on the show to be making diary room comments about Miles, questioning his motives, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by queenb;4030923;
    I know it sounds weird and may come as a shock to those who think art classes should consist of "now, you draw a nose this way" (and you can get that kind of class at one of those community art classes) that even though so much gesture drawing, non-figurative work, and such takes place in university art classes, if you stick with it and just do as you are told, you will learn to 'see' (proportions, perspective, light and shadow, all of that)better, handle your materials better, and will improve your representational ability tremendously in the process.
    Thanks to all the artists who replied to my previous comment. But I sat in on a lot of classes from 7th grade through college (where I witnessed a variety of classes as a model, so I know it was a large number of "teachers" that I saw acting the same, not just a few), and never experienced or witnessed any "this is how you do it" moments. I know our local community college does not have "now, you draw a nose this way" classes, either. But it would have been helpful! I did pick up all the stuff you mentioned, like proportions, negative space, even grids from high school, but not in any figure drawing classes. And the "crits" were no help - they always liked my work, and never told me anything that would help me grow.

    If I just do it myself, what is the point of having a teacher in the room? I feel the same about online classes. If I want to do it all myself, I'll just get a "for Dummies" book on any given topic from the library.
    Last edited by Harvest; 08-10-2010 at 11:47 PM.

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