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Thread: 3/2 show discussion *spoilers*

  1. #121
    FORT Fogey lambikins's Avatar
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    Nov 2003
    Even though it was a short post, barefootdyke, it was an insightful one. I guess you had your OWN version of Wife Swap, only YOU were the before and after!
    Still crazy, after all these shears

    "lambikins, put the crack pipe down and back away from the keyboard." Unklescott

    "lambikins... I have come to the conclusion that you are the Jedi Master of the Kitchen on FORT!" SuperBrat

  2. #122
    FORT Newbie Lena's Avatar
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    Mar 2005

    Minority (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by barefootdyke
    i recorded the show and just watched it today, while browsing this board as it went along. there is so much i want to respond to, but then it would be a huge post, so i don't think i will. i'll just say a couple of things ...

    i think i'm in the minority, but i liked dan. yes, he comes on strong ... but he's 17, and he's sprouting his wings as a young adult. he's actually a very intelligent person and expresses himself very well. how many 17 year olds can you say that about?
    Well, no matter who's a minority or majority...I though Dan needed a good swift kick! Absolutely no respect shown by him towards anyone! Recall, he dissed his father for eating breakfast, for pete's sake. I thought he expressed his opinions like any Dumb teenager does.

  3. #123
    I think both sides were right and wrong about different things. I just want to say that I'm glad that Dan said some stuff about there being no god. I'm an atheist. I get tired of christians trying to make everyone live by their beliefs. When one of them tries to proseletize me on the street, I tell them that I'm atheist. So I turn it back around on them.

    The ten commandments have no place being displayed on a government building, abortion should be legal, evolution is a fact, and homosexuality is no more immoral than heterosexuality.

  4. #124
    Crabby by nature Lucy van Pelt's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by captrick
    I KNEW this would come up....my point in that part was that it was a "political" symbol, and my rule was no political symbols besides the flag and a yellow ribbon.

    So noone gets me wrong......my views on gay rights.....as you know, I am a Christian. I do believe that living a gay lifestyle is immoral. I also believe that sex before marriage is immoral, being an alcoholic, adultery, and so on are also immoral. What I DON'T believe is that I should HATE anyone for the lifestyle they live. Because a person chooses to live a gay lifestyle DOES NOT make them evil, depraved, or a bad person. I know many gay men and women I think are wonderful people and I love them dearly. Just as I love every one of my friends who are ALL sinners in one way or another. I do not support the part of their life I feel is sinnful....that's it. Believe me, if I were without sin....why on earth would Jesus have died for me? Only difference, in my eyes between a gay person and me....is that I wake up each day trying one foot in front of the other to stear away from sin...however poor of a job I may do.....and they wake up each day "in" it....does that explain it?
    Nope sorry doesn't explain it. You yourself say that you made rules of no political symbols except the US flag and a "yellow ribbon". Okay, that's the RULE, that YOU made, so the rainbow flag had to come down to follow the rule. But YOU decided on that rule, it didn't arrive out of nowhere. Nothing you said above explains it, why only those symbols were allowed. You can only explain an action as being about following the rules if you were not the one who MADE the rule.

    Why not NO political symbols? Perhaps you think the US flag and the yellow ribbon are neutral, but plenty of people would disagree with you. Especially when rainbow flags and peace signs are pointedly not allowed.

    Taking down the rainbow flag, making a point of it, seemed to me to be a political statement in and of itself. And I was sad to see you return home and remove the peace sign. You said in the show that no one wants to go to war, so why remove a peace sign? If you're not against peace, why did it have to go?

    A more general comment, though Cheri said it on the show, which sparked: [begin rant] Something else that bothers me about many conservative hyper-"patriotic" people is the (frequently) strident assertion that America is the GREATEST country in the world. What is the obsession with having to be the very paramount, the ultimate, the tiptop? It comes off arrogant and boastful. What is wrong with saying it's a GREAT country? Greatest implies comparison to other countries. I say that there are many great things about this country and many great people. I also say that those facts don't preclude us from having bad aspects to and bad people in our country, nor do they preclude other countries from having great people and great characteristics. Feel free to substitute good, or excellent for great.

    Always declaiming one's country to be greatest or best strikes me as lack of confidence and maturity, like kids in a schoolyard: "My dad can beat up your dad!" "Oh yeah? Well my dad is ten times smarter than yours!" "Both your dads are losers! My dad makes fifty times as much as your dads!" Meh! :rolleyes [end rant]

    I was in agreement with much of Dan's opinions too, but not as dogmatically. I really did not like his using his position to be a bully about it though. He knew perfectly well that he was being mean and could get away with it. He was taking advantage of being in a situation where he was pretty much protected from any consequences of his hectoring. While I believe in freedom of speech, I also feel free to disapprove of anyone who is nasty. And he was trying to be nasty and was revelling in it. Also, anyone who agrees to go along with the premise of the show and then reneges is a dishonest jerk. If he didn't want to "play", he should have been allowed to opt out, but then everyone would have been allowed to pretend he wasn't there, and he should have kept his mouth shut. About everything. Oops, slipped back into ranting, but that is one of my pet peeves about people on this show -- they agree to follow the rules, then immediately don't. Seems to be one in every episode, if not more than one. Come on, it's only five days! Deal with it or don't agree to do it.

    All that said (I will be shutting up soon, aren't you glad?), this may be the last episode of this show that I watch. The Bachelorette debacle made me remember how manipulated everything is, merely to produce drama, and I just don't think I want to invest anymore time and energy into them. At least Survivor and TAR have contests of skill that I can watch and try to ignore the bickering, petty behavior, and moronic actions.

  5. #125
    FORT Fogey Harvest's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    California Wine Country. Cheers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Maveno
    I always find it sad that people believe that their lifestyle(s) are better than someone else's, simply because of religion. Hypocritical and bigoted people are the toughest to ever understand or open up to, let alone have an intelligent conversation with.

    This episode bored me because, IMO..no matter what was said/done.. there was going to be no "openness to other beliefs" in the end.
    I think that is why I liked Dan. As a teenager, he did not have the jadedness of us grown folks, and he had the drive to press a point where we would let it slide. I would not have tried to engage that woman or her neighborhood because I would know it was useless. Obviously she does not understand the part of the pledge that says "liberty and justice for all," for one thing, or that loving your country requires speaking out against a bad president. Hello! Trillions! Deficit! Hell in a handbasket! I wonder if their local paper will even carry today's front page Greenspan warnings?

    My first response to Dan was, Oh no, he made her cry! But then when he said he had to be that harsh or she would not hear it, that made some sense. And he did not give up. He lost respect for Greg(?) for enjoying being waited on hand and foot by a woman (is that his stepdad?), and took action by going to do the dishes. That simple act caused Blondie (I'm not good with names) to admit a lot of things. Their family and what values they pass on to their cute little girl will probably be improved vs. if she had not gone on the show.

    Hopefully Dan will outgrow his natural teenage abrasiveness. Just by watching that episode I see him turning into a real man. (Too many American men are behaviorally/emotionally little boys in adult bodies.) I was very impressed by him and think his parents should be proud. I hope they read this.

    It's nice to imagine that as Dan matures he'll learn that one gains wisdom by shutting up a little and letting others express themselves -- in this episode I can hardly remember the little brother saying much (although that could have been editing).

    I was musing about what makes a real man during tonight's Survivor episode too. Must be my thought to ponder for the week.

  6. #126
    shoes? who needs shoes?? barefootdyke's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
    i agree completely, harvest. you have a very good way with words...much better than i do.

  7. #127
    It's sad but true that you can't please everyone all of the time, and there's nothing I could say that would make "everyone" happy. I will not back peddle on my beliefs...it's just not who I am. There's always going to be someone who finds some reason to put hate in there and to over study some situation to find "something" to disagree with. So I won't even try to "defend" those things...it would be a total waste of energy. I believe what I believe, and others believe differently...that's fine with me...I can live with that, and I hope others can, too.

    I just wanted to point out one thing....I feel that some are getting the wrong idea about why my husband and I made the changes we made....our "realizations" had nothing to do with the anything Dan had to say...or Mina for that matter....they came from the constant drilling in to our relationship from the producers that brought things up we were forced to think about, we as a couple, decided to work on those things and were better as a couple and a family because of it. The point is, I would much rather my children be the happy little ones they are and as polite and well mannered as they are than to have them be anywhere near as disrespectful as Dan is. Which, I may add....there were some things about Dan I "liked". He has such a tuff exterior though....he makes it hard for most people to get past all of that and see the other part of him.

    For those that disliked me and disagree with everything about me...so be it...it's your right and that's exactly the reason I love this country so much...we all have the right to believe what we want. This will be my final post on this....there's just no point in argueing about it.

  8. #128
    Fight Queen corprip's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    Roeland Park, KS
    Quote Originally Posted by captrick
    Which, I may add....there were some things about Dan I "liked". He has such a tuff exterior though....he makes it hard for most people to get past all of that and see the other part of him.
    That's interesting. Was there anything in particular that didn't make editing you could share?
    "I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier." The Killers.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by corprip
    That's interesting. Was there anything in particular that didn't make editing you could share?
    Dan and I actually teamed up in a "shoot out" for a paint ball game where we destroyed Greg and Avrum! It was hilarious! I was very dissapointed that didn't make it in the episode. He and I came to the understanding (at least I felt we did) that the two of us are very much alike in "who we are". I am very passionate about my beliefs...as Dan is. We both won't back down or compromise our beliefs because of what other people think....that is a quality I admire in anyone. I hate when people spout off all kinds of "beliefs" that (as soon as someone challenges them on them) they back down and start back peddling. If you believe in something....stand up for it...I may not agree with you, but I'll definately respect you for having the gutts to hold your ground! It was exactly this quality about us both that sparked such heated discussions.....honestly, Dan just needs to work on his tact a little. Nobody wants to listen to someone who's being so....what's the word?....bolligerant about something. I also understand he's 17....and he's very eliquent(sp?) for a 17 year old and has very complex arguements and their compelling.....I just hope that as he gains maturity and age, he learns to present those arguements better....and gains the understanding that it's ok if everyone doesn't agree with you....

  10. #130
    FORT Fanatic
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    Jan 2004
    In the Camp of Gilles
    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    I certainly understood why you took down the rainbow flag. Nothing homophobic about it.
    It was totally homophobic. That flag stated something about the family's belief in love and tolerance for all members of the human family. By removing it, she was stating clear opposition to those beliefs. If she had removed an American flag, people would be howling that she was unpatriotic.

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