9/29 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

[gagi]

I really hated this installment. I can understand why ABC wants to find opposites to make it more scintillating, but this was just wrong. I bet they even titled it something like "Beverly Hillbillies, Before and After." I'm not rich, but I would have had a hard time chopping wood for six hours a day. The extremes in the show are too great and make for an uncomfortable time for all.

I felt bad for Lynn through most of the show because she was so out of her element. Steve was so rude and unsupportive. I think she tried really hard to make a positive difference in their lives. (I guess that can be a lesson to me for envying someone else's life.)

Jodi was really arrogant in the beginning, but then she tried to use the things she knew best to reach the girls (beauty day and such). She did come across as shallow but came around a bit. Props to her for getting Brad to see that he needs to help Lynn more.

All in all, I didn't like this episode. After hearing the info on the next show, I think I'll go back to Law & Order.

[realfun]

RoyaltyBuff, -- or anyone who saw Jodi, Steve, Lynn & Brad on Oprah -- I'd love to hear more about it.

Did Oprah call Steve out on his behavior or was it fluff?

[tango7]

They were on "Oprah?" aaaww, I missed that. I think Steve wa a real a-hole. He was making fun on Lynn. ("You get up at 5:30AM? Whaaa...do you have a paper route or something?") She shoulda asked him why he works so late - "What are YOU - a drug dealer or cat burglar or something??")

Okay, I was not crazy about Jodi either. But at least she tried and she DID make some positive improvements. And by the way, excuse my ignorance if I missed something, but exactly WHAT does Lynn's husband do?? Aside from sitting on his BUTT?? Does HE have a job? He didn't look disabled to me. Okay, so he became more appreciative...but how about getting off his butt??

And just what does Steve do for a living that made him so rich???

[lambikins]

Oh, do I have a lot to say about this show!

First, I loved it! I don't watch much Reality TV because I don't want to watch survivors, eating bugs and racing around the country. I enjoy shows that are NOT on an island, a studio or other artificial setting. So, watching two woman change their livestyles in different locals, was fascinating to me.

Second, I understood BOTH woman's locals because I've existed, or exit, in both of them. I grew up like Lynn, in rural...rural...Minnesota. We were so far off the grid that we had no phone or electricity until the late 60's. We chopped our own wood, milked our own cows, slaughtered our own meat and when we wanted new clothes...we went to the Salvation Army, bought bigger clothes that we needed and remade them into something that resembled "current".

Now, I live in the heart of Chicago, owning a business (Landscape Architecture) where 100% of my clients are Jody's and Steve's. Any single one of my clients will have the following:

1) A maid that comes 1-2 times per week. Does all the cleaning, laundry (folding and putting them away in drawers); cleans the frig, walls and all the crap (literally) around the toliets.

2) At least ONE au pair per child. No, I'm NOT kidding. One client has 4 kids and she has three au pairs; they come in at different times and different days and some specialize in new bornes and toddlers. One of my clients just delivered a baby girl on the 20th of September and they flew in (that's right...FLEW IN...) a baby nurse from Cincinnati, Ohio who specializes in taking care of new bornes. Why? So that the new mother can "sleep and recover her energy, returning back to normal." It also allows the new mother a chance to go back to the health club to regain her perfect size 2 figure!

3) A dog walker who comes 2-3 times per day, to pick up the dog, and take them to Dog Camp, where they scamper around, play and wear themselves out. At the end of the day, the dog walker drops off the pooch, complete with a "Work-Out Sheet", that details what the dog did, how they played, how many times they pooped and pee'd and what it looked like! (Folks: I can't possibly MAKE THIS STUFF UP!)

4) Personal Trainer or Therapist, coming TO their home!

5) The landscape architect, who shows up weekly, sometimes more, to do all the sweeping of yards, watering of plants, installations, take downs, and decorating of their homes, inside and out...for holidays, Christmas, etc. In fact, I have 4 clients that have me pick out their Christmas trees, decorate them, add the lights, and then take them down after the first of the year.

So, on any given day, these Jody and Steven's will be employing up to 5 of us "worker Bee's" for them to live; this does NOT include Interior Decorators, Caterers, or any of the constant parade of rehabbers that are constantly upgrading the homes.

You may ask, what are these folks like? Just like you and me.

Seriously.

They argue and make up. They suffer diseases, die, or get well. They pay taxes, eat (well, I may add) and travel.

They just do it with more money.

NONE of the woman have ever cleaned their homes. Some have jobs. NONE has ever done their own hair or manicures.

I've known some of the "kids" for 14 years and they are now adults. NO! They aren't on drugs, alcohol or in rehab. Yeah, they went to Paris and London before they were 12 and they all went to private schools and had nannies, but they turned out well. One of the 24 year olds that I knew when she was 10 is now a lawyer, representing rape victims.

The younger kids through tantrums or are nice; they eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and go to the park. Actually, the fact that the kids grew up with so many different people in their lives seems to have made them MORE well adjusted; sort of the "It takes a village to raise a child" approach.

But my attitude is: viva la difference.

What I know is that the block of homes that I take care of, which range in price from 1.5 million dollars to $5 million dollars employ on a daily basis a vast army of people (myself included) that provides food, clothing and shelter for us. Most of the au pairs travel with the families and have seen places that they never would have, if they worked at Walmart. Our bonuses at Christmas are legendary, ranging in the 3 to 4 figure amount.

And we are never, ever unappreciated.

Yes, I know that Steve was a jerk, and treated Lynn horribly. I also know people in the country, including Brad (initially) who do 'reverse snobbism, and are proud of their "simple lives."

What I liked about Lynn was that she didn't Lord over anyone that her livestyle was "better". She honestly and simply stated that what she knew was what she liked. And I admire her for that.

Jody was a creature of her upbringing, just as both sets of folks were in AMISH IN THE CITY. City folks didn't know how to muck out stalls and Country folks don't know how to hail a cab or catch the A train. It doesn't mean you're stupid, it just means that you "know what you know."

Lynn was bang-on with stating that the children should have more time with their parents, but, Lynn was very, very wrong with the UberMom approach that she cultivated with her own family.

Some people here have asked (but weren't answered) the question: Just what the HELL did Brad do all day long!!!??? It was never stated that he had a job or did one single thing, all day. And what about Lynn's two daughters? Both of those lazy-arsed kids could have had dinner waiting and ready for mom or pitched in and taken alternate days in cleaning, but Lynn seemed to want to foster complete dependence by her family. It serves her right that she was so tired.

Jody, once she and Brad reached an understanding, did go out and help him and did involve the girls. I liked that she has attempted to regain some control with her own kids, and interact with them some more.

But, the biggest winner in the show, for me, was Brad. Initially, I couldn't stand him and he was easier to hate than Steven. But, once Mistress Jody whipped his ass and had him doing "woman's work", he made the most drastic changes and appeared to truly appreciate what Lynn was up against. I like the fact that Jody and Brad really bonded, and through the process, both became better people.

Steven...well, he just reminded me of my ex husband. My ex (Larry) was older and wealthy when I married him at the tender age of 18 and the only thing that he wanted of me was to be the "Corporate Wife". He was upset that I wanted to complete college, that I wanted to work, and suggested...strongly...that I "didn't need to work." After 12 years of this, I finally divorced him and he married another 18 year old, who was more than willing to have kids and be taken care of. For some men, that's all they want: the pretty little woman at home, the kids for the Christmas cards, and the rest of the time...leave them the Hell alone.

I'm figuring that Steven was cut from that mold. But, he didn't have to be rude or dismissive.

I can't wait for the remaining weeks of this show. It will be interesting to see what other contrasting lifestyles that they try to play against each other.

[Lynne]

Oh, do I have a lot to say about this show!

First, I loved it! I don't watch much Reality TV because I don't want to watch survivors, eating bugs and racing around the country. I enjoy shows that are NOT on an island, a studio or other artificial setting. So, watching two woman change their livestyles in different locals, was fascinating to me.

Lynn was bang-on with stating that the children should have more time with their parents, but, Lynn was very, very wrong with the UberMom approach that she cultivated with her own family.

Some people here have asked (but weren't answered) the question: Just what the HELL did Brad do all day long!!!??? It was never stated that he had a job or did one single thing, all day. And what about Lynn's two daughters? Both of those lazy-arsed kids could have had dinner waiting and ready for mom or pitched in and taken alternate days in cleaning, but Lynn seemed to want to foster complete dependence by her family. It serves her right that she was so tired.

.

I enjoyed the show too, and like you, I was quite fascinated by it. When it was over, I was babbling on about it for quite a while to my husband & Mom. Of course I "knew" that some women live like Jodi does, but it's just so hard to imagine spending hours every day and thousands each week shopping for clothes, dinner out every night, never cooking, never cleaning, 4 nannies for 3 kids and on and on and on. It's hard to believe she didn't WANT to spend more time with her kids. Her daughter is so cute!! I guess the boys are OK too, lol. I think she really did realize how little time she spends with them, and will change that.

I agree -- why the heck didn't they tell us how Brad spends his days work-wise. And why the heck doesn't Lynn have her kids do more? I've met people like that. Their families were solid middle-class, but the Mom for whatever reason did all the housework and didn't expect their kids to do any. Hmmm, must be nice.

Lambikins, I found your post very interesting too. It's nice getting insight from someone who deals with this type of rich clientele all the time.

[Lynne]

Did anyone else get a little nervous when the rich gal was using the wood-cutter? After all, they said that Lynn, who'd used the machine for years, had cut off the tip of her finger once, so for someone who was so unused to manual labor to use it for the first time... Did Jodi have to sign extremely detailed liability waivers or what?!

[dagwood]

it's just so hard to imagine spending hours every day and thousands each week shopping for clothes,

I totally agree. I found myself wondering what she does with all the clothes. Only wear them once then donate them or throw them away? I don't think I could bring myself to buy that much. I find clothes I love and wear them to death. Guess that is the difference in a millionaire princess and me...single mom living paycheck to paycheck.

[Lynne]

http://app.abc.go.com/primetime/wife...spolansky.html

I found out some interesting information by entering "Steven Spolansky" into Google. In the link above, it refers to Jodi teaching second grade for three years at a private school. So she has worked after all! Surprise...

If you click on the photo of Lynn from this link, it refers to: "Lynn and her husband, Brad, have been running Bradley Firewood, a successful wood cutting business, for the past 30 years." So, although they didn't go into it on the show, my guess is that Brad goes to people's houses, or to businesses and cuts various trees into large chunks, and then brings it back to their house. Lynn then cuts it into smaller pieces to be sold for firewood.

[lambikins]

Lynn: Thanks for finding out what Brad (alledgedly) does for a living. I found it wrong of UPN to not give even a thumb nail bio of Bradley; there are very few 100% villians in life.

And thanks for the kind and supportive words about my post and insight into the Money Crowd.

In large part, that is why I watched THE SIMPLE LIFE I and this WIFE SWAP; being wealthy (not just well off) is the last area available to open hating, as is so evident by so many of the posts on boards discussing these shows. You can't attack people for color, race, religion or sexual preference any longer; even overweight people are jumping on the "Don't Thread on Me!" bandwagon. So people take their anger and bile out on the Rich. After all, can you imagine The Donald, Oprah and Bill Gates taking picket signs and marching in front of a VFW lodge, shouting about the unfairness of it all?!

I know that I've been very, very fortunate to be able to have spent half of my life so poor we couldn't even afford the pot to piss in and the other half of my life "flush" and being employed by the UberWealthy. It sure gets rid of all lies that you have for either life style.

It is NOT noble to be poor in America where you can't afford health insurance and your kids eat macaroni and cheese because it's cheap.

It is NOT noble to be rich in America where you own the insurance agency and your kids eat macaroni and cheese, prepared by the nanny.

If anyone wants to get angry at someone, get angry over the School Systems, which is the LARGEST WINNOWING FACTOR FOR SUCCESS. That, my friends, is where leaders are made or killed, literally.

One of the hardest things that I've had to witness is the loss of hope in a wonderful Hispanic friend that I have, who is now 16 and I've known for 8 years. She is the exact age, by 2 days, of my best friends daughter, who is lucky enough to go to a private school.

Here's the differences:

Rich: Class size: 4-8 children per class; one computer per child; 2 teachers per child from the entire school.

Average/Poor: Class size: 30-40 children per class; 15 computers for the entire 2000 student body; only 24% of a single teacher per child.

When I met Jane (Poor/Hispanic), she and Caroline (Wealthy/Black) were both 8 and on the same level in regards to excitement about school.

Eight years later, Caroline is looking into Yale or Harvard to enter Pre Law. Her parents gave her a used Honda Accord for her 16th birthday so that she could ferry herself to school (23 miles away) and she helps out by picking up her younger sisters and doing errands for the family.

Eight years later, Jane is flunking out in school, because the part time job that she has at Subway is not allowing her to get enough sleep or study for school. She's also bored with the subjects, bored with the teachers and the computer lab hasn't been updated since she started Middle School. Most of the computers don't function any longer. (Welcome to Chicago Public Schools). She is looking forward to quiting school so that she can get a full time job so that she can help out her parents with their bills. Mom travels 60 miles round trip to clean hotel rooms at O'Hare airport and dad is a cook at a local restaurant.

So, please tell me: if you had to choose between rich or average/poor...how hard of a decision would it be?

It's not about Jody shopping for hours or getting manicures. It's not about Lynn chopping wood for hours and getting exhausted. They are adults and they have made up their respective minds that this is the lifestyle for THEM.

It's the kids that get crushed by the difference between wealth and non-wealth. They are the real victims.

See, you can do a Thoreau and toss aside your wealth and live in a log cabin in the woods, but you CAN'T toss aside the log cabin, if that's all you own, walk into a city and check into a Four Seasons.

You just can't.

So, I'll keep rooting for the rich, if only for the opportunities that the children are provided.

[emeraldsong]

If anyone wants to get angry at someone, get angry over the School Systems, which is the LARGEST WINNOWING FACTOR FOR SUCCESS. That, my friends, is where leaders are made or killed, literally.

One of the hardest things that I've had to witness is the loss of hope in a wonderful Hispanic friend that I have, who is now 16 and I've known for 8 years. She is the exact age, by 2 days, of my best friends daughter, who is lucky enough to go to a private school.

Here's the differences:

Rich: Class size: 4-8 children per class; one computer per child; 2 teachers per child from the entire school.

Average/Poor: Class size: 30-40 children per class; 15 computers for the entire 2000 student body; only 24% of a single teacher per child.

When I met Jane (Poor/Hispanic), she and Caroline (Wealthy/Black) were both 8 and on the same level in regards to excitement about school.

Eight years later, Caroline is looking into Yale or Harvard to enter Pre Law. Her parents gave her a used Honda Accord for her 16th birthday so that she could ferry herself to school (23 miles away) and she helps out by picking up her younger sisters and doing errands for the family.

Eight years later, Jane is flunking out in school, because the part time job that she has at Subway is not allowing her to get enough sleep or study for school. She's also bored with the subjects, bored with the teachers and the computer lab hasn't been updated since she started Middle School. Most of the computers don't function any longer. (Welcome to Chicago Public Schools). She is looking forward to quiting school so that she can get a full time job so that she can help out her parents with their bills. Mom travels 60 miles round trip to clean hotel rooms at O'Hare airport and dad is a cook at a local restaurant.

Please do not group all public schools into the same pile. As a teacher, who has taught at various schools in various locations, I know that there are public schools like the one you have described. There are also a lot of public schools that are well equipped and are working to create the best possible options for all students.

There is much more that goes into a child's success in life than just what school they go to. Having taught for over ten years, I believe that the most important factor in a child's success is the parents. Caroline and Jane from above have gathered and learned a lot of important information from their families about education and values in life. Caroline and Jane are most likely to carry on their parents values and views. I do not blame the parents, but if parents do not see value in education then the child generally sees no value in education either.

A great school system can not change the messages the parents send their child. A great program can structure the learning to be more relevant, interesting and motivating to students. There will still be students who do not see the importance in education.

Do not blame or praise schools for the situations their students are in. The public system is one of the few places where we are graded on the quality we produce without being able to control the quality that comes in. A private school can say to a parent whose child is not learning well "go to another school." The public school can not say that. We take every child in and teach them as best we can -- we also provide breakfast and lunch for many children who do not have anything to eat. We provide character education and try to instill positive values and we monitor for abuse and neglect. We teach self care skills to students who may not even know how to use a comb -- much less a kleenex. We provide safety, security and routine for children who have none. We teach the skills many students need to be able to hold down any job. In many cases, we are the only place some children have were there are caring adults to interact with them.

We do this with minimal budgets that are always being cut, programs that may be manadated one year and cut the next, and new tests that are to be give two or three times a year -- taking away valuable time for learning.

Don't blame the schools -- unless you can prove that there is corruption at the top and that money that is supposed to be going to students isn't.