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Thread: 7/31 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #51
    FORT Fanatic Kay118's Avatar
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    I think tvguide.com is correct. I've checked another board and also futoncritic, episode #110 (finale) is currently scheduled for Aug 21 (episode #109 on Aug 14). Most likely 14th is a non-elimination or to be continued.

  2. #52
    FORT Regular lark37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyAKite View Post
    I think that TAR does a good job of selecting people so we don't have 7 or 8 people that are all in their 20's. TAR lets us spend time with the players instead of jumping from one team to another.
    I think the problem with confusing the team members particularly Southie Boys, X-CIA, and Air Force is not because of them being in their 20's because the Southie Boys are in their mid-thirties and so are the X-CIA's but because two of the Southie Boys are twins, and their friend John looks like he could be their brother as well. Then, when you consider that the two Air Force guys have similar looks even though they are younger than Southie Boys, and one of the X-CIA's has similar looks, it really gets confusing. TAR also does a better job at putting the names of the players on the screen when they show them whether it's when they're in action or during an interview portion. Maybe if Treasure Hunters did a better job of labeling each team whenever they show them, we wouldn't get so confused as to which team was which. BTW, the "Geniuses" aren't smarter than the other teams--they just think they are...don't they know that the Air Force Academy isn't for dummies? Charles (Geniuses) is NO friend to poor Sam, at least Francis was concerned for Sam and his fear of heights and asthma--Charles has been so mean to Sam throughout this competition. I hope Sam reconsiders who his true friends are after this competition. I'm routing for Air Force or Southie Boys!

  3. #53
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    I like this show for the most part, but it could use some changes if they were to do another season.
    I didn't think it was right for the Grad students to be eliminated due to an injury, then the next week let the Browns continue.
    I also don't think teams should be allowed to piggy-back off of others so much. Every team should have to solve the clues, and complete the tasks, not just one. I realize that in some instances you wouldn't be able to avoid it, but a better job of it still could be done.
    Too much of the traveling is done off screen, and it appears that everyone starts the next leg on level ground. Making good travel connections, and getting around in unfamiliar areas should be part of the competiton, rather than an afterthought.
    The tasks should be solved and completed in chronological order. When the Southies solved the map almost inadvertantly, they and all the other teams with them were allowed to skip ahead, even though they solved the map clue out of turn. On TAR, the tasks and clues must be performed/solved, in the order given, or they have to go back, or receive a penalty. Here, you are given a reward instead.
    I think the reason that people on TAR seem to be more recognizable is that on TAR, the show is always referring to them by their first names. Here, they never refer to them by first name. It also seems that a lot of the people here do not receive too much face time on camera.
    I would kind of like to see the Southie Boys win. They seem to represent more of the everyday average guy, compared to the other teams.

  4. #54
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    chess is not checkers, despite being played on the same board.

    Quote Originally Posted by radar View Post
    I like this show for the most part, but it could use some changes if they were to do another season.
    Well...they ARE producing a sequel to the movie "National Treasure"...so, it's possible. On the other hand--I don't think the ratings for this show have been very good...anyone know the figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by radar
    I also don't think teams should be allowed to piggy-back off of others so much. Every team should have to solve the clues, and complete the tasks, not just one.
    Let me play devil's advocate with you here...and ask you "why?"

    Why should every team have to solve the clues? If this was a "real" treasure hunt...and you were there when the clue was solved, you'd see it solved...and you'd continue your hunt along with the other teams all chasing the same goal...

    Forcing each team to do each task makes it less like a treasure hunt and more like The Amazing Race...

    Quote Originally Posted by radar
    Too much of the traveling is done off screen, and it appears that everyone starts the next leg on level ground. Making good travel connections, and getting around in unfamiliar areas should be part of the competiton, rather than an afterthought.
    The tasks should be solved and completed in chronological order. When the Southies solved the map almost inadvertantly, they and all the other teams with them were allowed to skip ahead, even though they solved the map clue out of turn. On TAR, the tasks and clues must be performed/solved, in the order given, or they have to go back, or receive a penalty. Here, you are given a reward instead.
    ...but this is Treasure Hunters...not The Amazing Race.

    There are good reasons for why The Amazing Race does what it does...but that's not the game design model that the designers of Treasure Hunters used...

    Trust me, Radar...I'm ALSO a TAR fan--I prefer TAR to Treasure Hunters (for various reasons)--but I wouldn't want Treasure Hunters to be just a TAR rip-off.

    In Treasure Hunters, time and travel are NOT important. What is meant to be important is putting the clues together to get to each leg's final destination and to be able to solve that last puzzle before the last team does... That's it.

    This show isn't about who can make travel arrangements or who can shave seconds off a cab ride or even about completing the various tasks in the right order--it is simply about getting to the final destination and not being the last team to solve that leg-ending puzzle.

    Because it's a different game, it is played differently than TAR. Perhaps alliances ARE a good strategy in this game? Perhaps a different skill set is valued in this game compared to what works best in TAR?

    If anything, Treasure Hunters should have MORE elements that define it differently than TAR--to HIGHLIGHT what is special and unique about Treasure Hunters...not to simply make it a clone of a different show...

    So, the Southies figured out the map puzzle sooner than the others did. So what? I mean...that was good for them, right? They're smart, they figured it out without having to be lead around by the nose like the other teams...so they don't have to jump through as many hoops as the other teams...hurrray! (Although, I DID like the twist--inadverntent as it seemed to be--in which they were told where to pick up their cars based on a landmark that they hadn't located because they hadn't completed the task that would have lead them to that landmark.)

    Again--I'm not saying that the way Treasure Hunters is doing things is better than the way TAR does it...or that it creates more compelling television than TAR is (in fact, I know for a fact that it DOESN'T--because I'm not emotionally invested in this show...and I've found myself emotionally invested in EVERY SEASON OF TAR...)...but the way TAR does it is the way that TAR does it--it isn't the only way that a reality/chase series has to follow...

    TAR is like an obstacle course. The course is laid out--you're told what tasks have to be done...and then you see people go through the process of accomplishing those tasks.

    Treasure Hunters, on the other hand, instead of being a simple obstacle course...also has elements of a mystery. A mystery is a difficult balance between keeping enough information away from everyone to keep everyone guessing and giving them enough information to get closer to solving the mystery. Go too far in one direction, viewers and competitors lose interest in the mystery or find themselves at an impass, unable to proceed further because they can't figure it out...go too far in the other direction, viewers and competitors might guess the answers early and ruin the suspense (or the game design.) It's a difficult format to master--especially in a reality show with the logistical considerations of a major military campaign to manage...

    Quote Originally Posted by radar
    I think the reason that people on TAR seem to be more recognizable is that on TAR, the show is always referring to them by their first names. Here, they never refer to them by first name. It also seems that a lot of the people here do not receive too much face time on camera.
    This is very important to recognize--in Treasure Hunters, it is about the game...in TAR, it is about the relationships of the people in the game.

    In TAR, Phil gives us the exact instructions about a task...then, we see how each team performs the task. We are encouraged, at every step of the race, to judge each competitor...possibly to identify with a competitor...and we witness how the performances and the decisions that are made impact the relationships that keep the teams together. (This is one reason why fans of the show aren't very enthused to see Alpha Male teams do well...not only do they seem to have a physical advantage but also we aren't drawn to the strains put on their relationships...)

    Because of this, the focus is ALWAYS on the individuals...so you "know" them, you "know" their stories and you "know" how they are expected to handle what confronts them on the route... Also, because of this, the family edition didn't work out quite so well...because the relationship strain was spread out over four people...not concentrated between two.

    But...in Treasure Hunters...the audience isn't encouraged to identify with the teams, isn't really being asked to be drawn into the stories of those competing...and the course isn't design to test the bonds of a relationship. The audience is directed first TO THE MYSTERY...and then, when the mystery is solved, the show falters and merely recounts how the teams that are behind the leaders manage to move to the next mystery... With the focus on sharing the clues with the audience, we're not focusing in on who can figure out what first or who can manage to do something quickly...we're left in an abandoned school with a cryptic message about not being able to see...until someone on the show figures out to turn off the light...and then it's on to the next part of the mystery.

    That's why we don't know these teams very well--because in the game design of this show, they really aren't all that important... (A pretty fatal flaw, in my opinion, if you're trying to create compelling tv--we HAVE to be made to care about who is winning and who might lose...)

    pg

    PS--Where in Wisconsin are you from, Radar?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pg13 View Post
    (Although, I DID like the twist--inadverntent as it seemed to be--in which they were told where to pick up their cars based on a landmark that they hadn't located because they hadn't completed the task that would have lead them to that landmark.)

    pg

    PS--Where in Wisconsin are you from, Radar?
    That was the biggest thing I didn't like in this episode. They should have had to figure out where the cars were for themselves, or at least follow the course up to that point.
    This is where the producers are basically determining the outcome of the game. They slingshotted all these teams ahead of Miss USA, who went from 2nd to last in a blink of an eye, without much chance to remain in the game.
    I'm not a big fan of the show over-manipulating the outcome. The one thing I don't like about TAR is the non-elimination legs. In my opinion, they use it to keep a team of their choice in the competition. I would prefer that the teams had to earn a non-elimination in some form. Perhaps have one of the gnomes be a non-elim. token, but you wouldn't know unless you fnished a leg in last, you could crack open your gnome and find out if you were saved or not.
    I think Survivor is way too manipulative. Such as when they decide to merge tribes, etc.
    As for the family edition of TAR, I think that it was similar to TH from the standpoint that you couldn't identify with the individuals. I think if the people were mainly identified by ther first names, and their group/family identity was downplayed, viewers would know who they are more.
    I think that TH is fairly similar to real life scavenger hunts. In such competitions, each team finds their own items, and finds their own way around town, etc., by using their own ingenuity. At no point are you ever waiting for the other groups to catch up to you. The farther you get ahead, the better.

    I am from Oshkosh, PG.

  6. #56
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    Oshkosh, eh? So...you survived this year's EAA...good for you! (I had an aunt that lived in Oshkosh...and I grew up in Wisconsin Rapids...)

    As far as figuring out where the cars were for themselves--they were given "they're at the Statue of Liberty"--but they DID have to find them for themselves...because they didn't have to do the task that pointed out the Statue of Liberty to them... Imagine the fun if these teams, not understanding that there's a Statue of Liberty in Paris, all went to the airport and flew to New York to pick up their cars?

    (Never would have happened of course...because I get the distinct impression--no proof, just a hunch--that people on the production help these teams out when the clues are beyond their grasp...)

    What you see as an unfair advantage--how the Southie Boys figured out the clue they had in their hands before they were told how to solve it--I see as a positive difference between TH and TAR...

    A show like Treasure Hunters SHOULD, as part of the game design balance, have moments where the supposedly "smart" teams can gain an advantage by using their smarts over the "physical" teams who gain advantages at more physically demanding tasks.

    If there was a season two of TH--I'd expect that every artifact is studied and experimented with by the teams once they get them...and the game designers will have a harder time hiding things in plain sight with the second season's teams...

    ...if anything, what's really dooming Treasure Hunters is the fact that they have a bunch of "brute force" teams--no one is all that clever. (No one knew who Lafayette was? No one knew that there's a Statue of Liberty in Paris? Really?) So...everyone (from Air Force to Geniuses, from Ex-CIA to Wild Hanlons, from Fogals to Browns) is running the race in the exact same way...go to where you're told to go, do what they say to do...hope it comes to you...or someone else near by...then get the phone message that tells you where to go next... Easy on the production costs, I'm sure...but it makes the outcome rather predictable.

    Was it unfair that the teams that figured out that you have to clean off the map got ahead of the team that didn't figure that out? I don't see how you can say that--the whole point of sending the teams up the Eiffel Tower and to the Statue of Liberty was to give them a vague clue to lead them to washing the map with water... The fact that Miss USA went up the Eiffel Tower, found the Statue of Liberty, found the clue that told them to wash the streets...and still couldn't figure out that it had something to do with the map...(all of which they did BEFORE the already-washed-the-map teams got to the Eiffel Tower and were directed to their cars) is their own fault... and they deserved to be passed on the route by the teams that HAD figured it out...

    An argument could be made that the constant intrusion and dependence upon the Motorola messages are the real flaw in the Treasure Hunters game design... The washing of the map didn't send the teams to their next destination...it took a Motorola message and a story from the Lairdbot to send the teams on their way. That confirmation message (again--probably necessary to keep production costs down...and to keep the truly dumber than stumps teams moving forward) certainly makes the game much more linear--and more TAR-like--than it would need to be in order to forge its own truly distinct identity...

    And...while this is neither the time nor the forum to debate the importance of NELs in TAR, I will say this... TAR, Survivor, TH...these are not sporting events. They are simply tv shows... OF COURSE the producers are manipulative (although, I disagree with your take that TAR NELs aren't preplanned or are team specific) and OF COURSE what happens isn't always fair... But they aren't meant to be...

    And while there are those of us (myself included) that would truly relish an even playing field legitimate contest of balanced teams over a competitive course design...treated as such...the truth is, the ratings are where the drama is...and ratings, not a fair competition, is what the show producers are after...

    ...and based on the ratings, that's what the majority of tv viewers are after as well...

    pg

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