Marcel Vigneron - Season 2 - Page 10

Lex · 12-11-2006, 03:22 AM

Did anyone else think it was creepy how he was hitting on those surfer girls?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surly

What lack of understanding are you talking about? Can you give specific examples? I cannot recall a single QF or elimination challenge where he appears "amazed that he didn't win".

I remember at least one (possibly two) confessionals where he seemed to express disbelief that he didn't win.

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Stephmo · 12-11-2006, 10:51 PM

I am absolutely speaking to his confessionals. He spends the bulk of his time in those confessionals prior to judging going on about how he's built a superior dish as compared to everyone else.

His loss at the avocado bacon ice cream challege was one of the ones that really irritated me. He was more interested in coming up with one of his molecular creations (well, something that someone might think was molecular gastronomy and not just a rather bad idea for an ice cream) than actually creating an excellent ice cream.

In this challenge in particular, he was beyond impressed with his flavor combinations. He felt he was going to win and felt that his ice cream was more cutting edge than most of the other chefs (despite other appearances of bacon and avocado in other chef's creations). In the end, Marcel didn't appreciate what others had brought to the table, nor did he seem to grasp the idea of an audience.

Marcel strikes me as expecting others to be impressed with him simply because he labels himself as a molecular gastronomist (honestly, I have yet to hear him explain the science behind a single paring he's made) and because he's got the talent to work under Joel Robuchon. However, even Joel Robuchon recognizes that part of being a chef means having to adapt to guests - this is why he's a 9-Michelin star chef. I don't see this adaptiveness in Marcel. Heck, even when Marcel attempted to "bond" with his audience last week at the beach, his idea was saying "bro" every 4th word and picking up on underage girls.

corprip · 12-12-2006, 02:33 AM

All of those things you described about Marcel, Stephmo, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but where it seems to get on your nerves, it actually endears me more to him. Marcel is young, naive and cocky, but in a benign, lighthearted way. To me that is beautiful, similar to the way Michael's hapless style is sweet because it is without malice. Originally, I like Ilan quite a bit, but as the show has progressed and he has showed more of his personality, I have been turned off of him. I can definitely see where some would think Marcel is annoying, but to me he's pure sweetness.

gizmo1 · 12-12-2006, 04:58 AM

The sad part about Marcel's cockiness (and brashness) is that he cannot see that this attitude is ticking the other chefs off. If he makes the finals, this lack of friends (except for Elia who is likely to be a competitor) is going to cost him the big prize.

madeboxer · 12-12-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corprip

Very true... unlike Mia who fumes and bitches everytime she doesn't win.

I guess I have to disagree about Mia. Yes she's surprised when she don't win but I have never seen her "bitch" about it just get mostly angry with herself for not winning. Although she has threw some interesting expressions out there but not like Betty, Sam, or even Elia.

I have seen her angry about another's indescretions or about doing something that can cause that person AND her to lose but she usually expresses this BEFORE the trip to the Judges table. Most of the time, she has lost when in a group and her anger may be based in the fact that she lost because someone else screwed up.

I have to admit, for the reason above, she shows no leadership skills at all.

Her necessary improvement may be to express her concerns when she sees a problem and not continually express them at the judges table.

Veruka · 12-12-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gizmo1

The sad part about Marcel's cockiness (and brashness) is that he cannot see that this attitude is ticking the other chefs off. If he makes the finals, this lack of friends (except for Elia who is likely to be a competitor) is going to cost him the big prize.

But is there a chef there (with the possible exception of Mike) who doesn't have that same cockiness and brashness? Let's be honest - (again with the possible exception of Mike) they're all there because they saw the opportunity for the show and said "Hey, I AM the best. I can win that show!" If they didn't all share the characteristic of cockiness, they wouldn't be there.

There are some among them who recognize that they're all cocky, and that's okay. (I'd put Marcel in that category). There are others who can't recognize it in themselves, and see it as a negative attribute in others. They don't make any sense to me!

gizmo1 · 12-12-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veruka

But is there a chef there (with the possible exception of Mike) who doesn't have that same cockiness and brashness? Let's be honest - (again with the possible exception of Mike) they're all there because they saw the opportunity for the show and said "Hey, I AM the best. I can win that show!" If they didn't all share the characteristic of cockiness, they wouldn't be there.

There are some among them who recognize that they're all cocky, and that's okay. (I'd put Marcel in that category). There are others who can't recognize it in themselves, and see it as a negative attribute in others. They don't make any sense to me!

There is a difference between being cocky and being confident.

Veruka · 12-12-2006, 01:01 PM

Absolutely. And a show like Top Chef attracts people who are cocky. Marcel isn't the only one. Group think should not find him guilty of a quality that all the chefs share.

Krom · 12-12-2006, 04:25 PM

Marcel's problem isn't that he's cocky. It's that he's snooty, and a bit disconnected from culinary reality.

Nobody gives a crap if he's memorized every single technique Ferran Adria has of making food into neat new shapes, or making foam of out meat, or building ingredients in towers, or whatever other molecular gastronomy tricks he wants to pull. If you can't do the simple stuff, and WELL, you don't have any RIGHT to be cocky.

gizmo1 · 12-12-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veruka

Absolutely. And a show like Top Chef attracts people who are cocky. Marcel isn't the only one. Group think should not find him guilty of a quality that all the chefs share.

Last year's winner Harold did not come close to being cocky. If anything the guy was too self-deprecating. Lee Anne in her entry video said that she was CONFIDENT in her abilities. Among this year's contestants, Cliff is the chef who comes closest to exuding confidence in his cooking skills without being loud about it.

12-11-2006, 10:51 PM	#92
Stephmo Abuh? Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: OH-IO Posts: 183	I am absolutely speaking to his confessionals. He spends the bulk of his time in those confessionals prior to judging going on about how he's built a superior dish as compared to everyone else. His loss at the avocado bacon ice cream challege was one of the ones that really irritated me. He was more interested in coming up with one of his molecular creations (well, something that someone might think was molecular gastronomy and not just a rather bad idea for an ice cream) than actually creating an excellent ice cream. In this challenge in particular, he was beyond impressed with his flavor combinations. He felt he was going to win and felt that his ice cream was more cutting edge than most of the other chefs (despite other appearances of bacon and avocado in other chef's creations). In the end, Marcel didn't appreciate what others had brought to the table, nor did he seem to grasp the idea of an audience. Marcel strikes me as expecting others to be impressed with him simply because he labels himself as a molecular gastronomist (honestly, I have yet to hear him explain the science behind a single paring he's made) and because he's got the talent to work under Joel Robuchon. However, even Joel Robuchon recognizes that part of being a chef means having to adapt to guests - this is why he's a 9-Michelin star chef. I don't see this adaptiveness in Marcel. Heck, even when Marcel attempted to "bond" with his audience last week at the beach, his idea was saying "bro" every 4th word and picking up on underage girls. __________________ It's all been a Spool of Lies!!!

12-12-2006, 02:33 AM	#93
corprip Fight Queen Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Roeland Park, KS Age: 30 Posts: 2,190	All of those things you described about Marcel, Stephmo, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but where it seems to get on your nerves, it actually endears me more to him. Marcel is young, naive and cocky, but in a benign, lighthearted way. To me that is beautiful, similar to the way Michael's hapless style is sweet because it is without malice. Originally, I like Ilan quite a bit, but as the show has progressed and he has showed more of his personality, I have been turned off of him. I can definitely see where some would think Marcel is annoying, but to me he's pure sweetness. __________________ "I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier." The Killers.

12-12-2006, 04:25 PM	#99
Krom Fool... but no pity. Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18,195	Marcel's problem isn't that he's cocky. It's that he's snooty, and a bit disconnected from culinary reality. Nobody gives a crap if he's memorized every single technique Ferran Adria has of making food into neat new shapes, or making foam of out meat, or building ingredients in towers, or whatever other molecular gastronomy tricks he wants to pull. If you can't do the simple stuff, and WELL, you don't have any RIGHT to be cocky. __________________ "Not to denigrate the TV show, but nobody ever died," Cannell said recently. "We drove cars off cliffs and people got out and walked away. We're not going to do that [in the movie]. In this the tone is more dangerous - you can really die. It's very tense and exciting." Stephen J Cannell, on the new A-Team movie being produced

12-12-2006, 04:58 AM	#94
gizmo1 FORT Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 443	The sad part about Marcel's cockiness (and brashness) is that he cannot see that this attitude is ticking the other chefs off. If he makes the finals, this lack of friends (except for Elia who is likely to be a competitor) is going to cost him the big prize.

12-12-2006, 01:01 PM	#98
Veruka FORT Fogey Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 6,704	Absolutely. And a show like Top Chef attracts people who are cocky. Marcel isn't the only one. Group think should not find him guilty of a quality that all the chefs share.