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Thread: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

  1. #31
    FORT Fogey TripleGemini's Avatar
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Not only that, but in the LSU challenge, Carlos specifically wanted the grill (or whatever area it was that he ended up using), even though Shirley called it first...and she ended up having to use the oven and change up her recipe.

    And then when it came time to cook his fish, Carlos wanted to use Nick's oven (the one Nick had been using for the entire time, just like everyone else had sole control over their areas...this would be one reason why Carrie got stuck doing a "cold" dish...she took the area that no one else wanted because she had immunity) and Nick said "no". I thought Nick was completely justified. (And I thought Carlos was deluded when he said that "Nick is only thinking about Nick". Well, duh. It's a competition.)

    I can't figure out why Nick is selfish for not giving up his oven or wanting to give up his knife, but Carlos isn't selfish for expecting to use what Nick has.

    (And as recently as the LSU challenge, the immunity winner had the worst dish, but wasn't even called as part of the bottom three...because she couldn't be eliminated. The only reason Nick was there was because it was a team challenge. I say that it's poor planning on Top Chef's part. And I thought Tom was out of line for wanting Nick to "fall on his sword". Don't blame the chefs because the challenge was set up incorrectly.)
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  2. #32
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by AcookerTV View Post
    I disagree with the notion that Nick kept Carlos out of the ovens with the intent to sabotage. You're right - this is a cooking competition. That competition encompasses all elements of food prep, which includes presentation, and ensuring the food tastes as intended when it is presented. Nick knew that his dish would present better on a warm plate, and he planned accordingly to be able to do that. Carlos did not think about the big picture in preparing his dish. He was moving one step at a time, not giving a lot of room for "what if" problems, and wound up without an oven. Carlos could have reserved an oven early in the prep time, and if he had, he would not have been sabotoging any of the other chefs. He would have been presenting the best dish possible - just like Nick did.
    As I recall, Carlos actually made a better dish than Nick.

    Your suggestion doesn't address the basic problem. Plan or no plan your idea still comes down to who grabs what equipment first. Sure, Carlos could have planned better but if Nick was first to reserve the ovens, then Carlos (and everyone else) is still sans ovens for the entire challenge, even if Nick isn't cooking anything. All this does is motivate chefs to sabotage faster. My opinion is that the chefs should not be motivated to sabotage at all.

    And, yes, cooking encompasses presentation. But has a chef ever been asked to pykag because he didn't heat his plates??? In a kitchen with limited resources, priority must be given to the most important element which is the actual cooking itself.

  3. #33
    FORT Fogey Florimel's Avatar
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetRTWatcher View Post
    I must be watching a different show. I have not formed an opinion of Nick as selfish. I didn't think it was selfish in the LSU episode that he used the oven that he had reserved from the beginning for his use. Why didn't Carlos plan ahead?? I didn't think it was selfish that he stayed in the game when he had immunity. That's part of the game. Now I may have formed a different opinion if, in this last challenge, he had picked the easiest dishes and/or intentionally executed them poorly to get rid of one of his teammates. However, what actually happened didn't make him look bad IMO, it made the judges look bad.
    I agree with you about this. Carlos has not appealed to me for quite some time. I think his skills and knowledge are lacking as is his time management. I didn't like how he pressed Nick to lend him a knife, especially after complaining to the judges about him, and then didn't clean it properly afterwards. Their knives are some of the chefs' most treasured equipment and rarely will then lend them out. It's only my opinion, but I would have liked to see Carlos leave weeks ago.
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    Not only that, but in the LSU challenge, Carlos specifically wanted the grill (or whatever area it was that he ended up using), even though Shirley called it first...and she ended up having to use the oven and change up her recipe.
    Elsewhere, I've said that Carlos was selfish for demanding the flat-top. But this discussion is about Nick's selfishness, not Carlos'.


    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    And then when it came time to cook his fish, Carlos wanted to use Nick's oven (the one Nick had been using for the entire time, just like everyone else had sole control over their areas...this would be one reason why Carrie got stuck doing a "cold" dish...she took the area that no one else wanted because she had immunity) and Nick said "no". I thought Nick was completely justified.
    The ovens were not part of Nick's station, that's why he expressly reserved them. Also, he took all of the ovens, including the ones not directly behind him. The fact that each chef had a station didn't stop them from sharing. For example, Shirley made a roast using an oven she presumably "borrowed" from Nick. Carrie used the grill in Stephanie's station to make her pita bread. So there was no hard and fast rule about who could use what piece of equipment. It came down to whether the chefs were willing to share. And Nick was not willing to share with Carlos, even though he apparently was willing to share with Shirley. If you watch the show, you will see that Nick was visibly unhappy when Carlos demanded the big grill. That edit was meant to explain Nick's refusal to share with Carlos--ie, it had more to do with personal animosity than "cooking".

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    (And I thought Carlos was deluded when he said that "Nick is only thinking about Nick". Well, duh. It's a competition.)
    OK, so you agree Nick was selfish.

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    I can't figure out why Nick is selfish for not giving up his oven or wanting to give up his knife, but Carlos isn't selfish for expecting to use what Nick has.
    Nick is selfish because he refused to let Carlos use something (the ovens) he (Carlos) had a right to use.

  5. #35
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Penne, you and I are never going to agree on this issue. Yes, there are limited resources for equipment. All of the chefs have to take that into account when planning their dish. As others have said, that's why some in the LSU challenge were forced to serve a cold dish. In the past, a chef may not have ever been sent home for not heating plates. However, chefs HAVE been sent home for serving food cold when it needed to be hot. The purpose of heating plates is to keep a hot dish hot. So if the dish was not plated as intended, it could have resulted in going home. Each chef is responsible for putting is best foot forward. We've seen multiple times that Carlos best foot is not as strong as the others. There have been challenges like the etoufee challenge where he lacked the basic knowledge of knowing what the dish was. There have been other challenges where hes' decided to prepare something but didn't have the equipment to do it. Those weaknesses are not the responsibility of other chefs to step in and help Carlos along. THose weaknesses are indicators that he is not the top chef in the competition.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by penne View Post
    OK, here we go. It was this very subject that got me in trouble with the moderator of another site who didn't like being contradicted.
    I certainly don't care if you want to disagree with me. We are all entitled to our own opinion!

    Quote Originally Posted by penne View Post
    I tried to express my opinion that Nick had no right to use the ovens to heat his plates when Carlos needed the oven to cook his food. Why? Because in a cooking competition, on a cooking show, heating plates can never take precedence over cooking food. The intent of this competition is for every chef to try their best and cook the best food they can make. It is not the intent of this show to have chefs win by sabotaging each other--ie, by deliberately forcing other chefs do their worst. But this is exactly the precedent Nick set when he commandeered the ovens and refused to let another chef cook just so he could heat plates.
    I disagree. This show is not *just* about cooking. As another poster pointed out, presentation matters. If he had put his hot food on a plate that allowed it to cool off to much before serving then he would have been bashed by the judges for serving a hot dish that was too cold. I do not think Nick was trying to sabotage anyone. He had a plan and he was executing it. The chefs knew they were cooking in a cafeteria with limited resources and Carlos, IMO, did not have the foresight to plan ahead and figure out how his requirements fit into the big picture. I think it is a huge leap to say that chefs could start claiming resources in the kitchen that they didn't plan to use simply to take down a competitor. IF it was allowed, the THAT would definitely be a selfish thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by penne View Post
    He wasn't looking out for #1 by not resigning? He isn't in it to win it?
    .... He had enough awareness of his situation and enough concern for the other chefs that he took a back seat. Nick did not. Nick was all about Nick. He forgot that it was a team challenge. He didn't think about his teammates. He was selfish.
    Maybe we have a fundamentally different idea about what is considered selfish. IMO a person who is selfish is thinking ONLY of themselves. I think Nick *was* thinking about his teammates and that's why he volunteered to take the most challenging dish. Being in the competition to win it doesn't, by definition, make a person selfish. And I don't think that keeping the immunity he earned makes him selfish.

    JMO.
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetRTWatcher View Post
    I disagree. This show is not *just* about cooking. As another poster pointed out, presentation matters. If he had put his hot food on a plate that allowed it to cool off to much before serving then he would have been bashed by the judges for serving a hot dish that was too cold. I do not think Nick was trying to sabotage anyone. He had a plan and he was executing it. The chefs knew they were cooking in a cafeteria with limited resources and Carlos, IMO, did not have the foresight to plan ahead and figure out how his requirements fit into the big picture. I think it is a huge leap to say that chefs could start claiming resources in the kitchen that they didn't plan to use simply to take down a competitor. IF it was allowed, the THAT would definitely be a selfish thing to do.
    It's not a "huge leap". I never suggested "chefs could start claiming resources in the kitchen that they didn't plan to use". I said chefs could claim and hold equipment that they need, but refuse to let anyone else use it, even when they were finished.

    This is the 2nd or 3rd time someone has blamed Carlos for not planning. Again, what difference would it have made when Nick claimed the ovens faster? Everyone can plan, but anyone who is too slow to grab will still be left out in the cold.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetRTWatcher View Post
    Maybe we have a fundamentally different idea about what is considered selfish. IMO a person who is selfish is thinking ONLY of themselves. I think Nick *was* thinking about his teammates and that's why he volunteered to take the most challenging dish. Being in the competition to win it doesn't, by definition, make a person selfish. And I don't think that keeping the immunity he earned makes him selfish.
    I didn't say "that keeping the immunity he earned makes him selfish". I said not considering the potential repercussions of his risk taking on his teammates made him selfish. And how do you know that Nick "*was* thinking about his teammates and that's why he volunteered to take the most challenging dish"? I didn't see anything that suggested he did this out of consideration for his teammates.
    Last edited by penne; 01-13-2014 at 06:22 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    But anyone who doesn't "Grab" fast enough is NOT left out in the cold. As others have said - Shirley planned to grab a grill. She didn't get it, so she altered her plan to cook her food a different way in order to be successful. Carrie didn't grab any method to heat food fast enough. So she altered her plan and prepared a cold dish based on the equipment she had. The big difference between these things and Carlos was that when Carlos realized he didn't grab the equipment he needed fast enough, he forged ahead. He did not alter his plan based on what he COULD do. That may be because he lacks the creativity, because he's bull-headed, because he saw it as an opportunity to complain about Nick to the judges, or a host of other reasons. We hae no way of knowing exactly WHY Carlos didn't alter his plan to what he could and could not do, and it doesn't matter. He failed to adjust, and that's his fault - not any of the other competitors.
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  9. #39
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    The difference with the LSU challenge (at least if the editing is to be believed) is that each chef was allotted one cooking area adjacent to their station, and they were to stick to them unless someone felt like being generous and had free space/time. Nick had the oven, and Carlos took great pains to make sure he got the grill.

    To be honest, this debate is getting unnecessarily heated in general -- frankly I'm not overly fond of either Nick or Carlos, and hope they both go down soon, lol. But we're all entitled to our favorites and opinions, and we can disagree without confronting each other as if we're on the stand in a trial. It's a reality TV show.
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    Re: Top Chef New Orleans - 1/8 Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by AcookerTV View Post
    Penne, you and I are never going to agree on this issue. Yes, there are limited resources for equipment. All of the chefs have to take that into account when planning their dish. As others have said, that's why some in the LSU challenge were forced to serve a cold dish. In the past, a chef may not have ever been sent home for not heating plates. However, chefs HAVE been sent home for serving food cold when it needed to be hot. The purpose of heating plates is to keep a hot dish hot. So if the dish was not plated as intended, it could have resulted in going home. Each chef is responsible for putting is best foot forward. We've seen multiple times that Carlos best foot is not as strong as the others. There have been challenges like the etoufee challenge where he lacked the basic knowledge of knowing what the dish was. There have been other challenges where hes' decided to prepare something but didn't have the equipment to do it. Those weaknesses are not the responsibility of other chefs to step in and help Carlos along. THose weaknesses are indicators that he is not the top chef in the competition.
    Carlos is in the final 5. He's done better than Nick if you count wins and appearances on the top and bottom, including at LSU. And, yes, I understand the reason for heating plates. But why is it no-one else serving hot dishes thought it was necessary to heat his plates? Did Shirley serve her winning roast beef dish on heated plates? Did Carlos serve his winner's circle worthy fish dish on heated plates? Did Brian serve his uber-popular shrimp dish on heated plates? And if Nick's dish had not been blah, but had rather been perfect except that it was not hot (and this is not the same thing as being cold), and Nick explained that he wanted to heat his plates but surrendered the ovens to Carlos so he could cook his food, do you think it is likely he (Nick) would have been sent home? The only way that would have happened is if everyone else's dish was perfect in every way. How likely was that given no-one else was heating their plates?

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