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Thread: Marcel Vigneron - Season 2

  1. #311
    FORT Fan madeboxer's Avatar
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    A lot of folks feel that Marcel should have won but he made the biggest most glaring mistake a cheftestant could do. He made a SALAD! I can mak a salad. My grand daughter can make a salad. When the chemical dressing did not work, he should have had a backup and "tossed" the salad. Actually, He should have not put a salad on the menu.

    When one is going for the biggest prize possible and it all depends on how well you cook, you DONT fix a SALAD!!

    As for the fish incident, Makey was right. It was the SOLE responsibility of the head chef to make sure he had all his ingredients with him. It can be possible that the other chefs were not quite as motivated as he to win but it was HIS chance to shine, HIS chance to win the money, HIS chance to prove he should and could win. and HIS responsibility to make sure he had all means to do so.

    Just think. If this was the regular elimination round, He would be backing his knives and GONE!

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;2225986;
    Do we have a "stunned" emoticon?

    It's just odd to see the words "Marcel" and "subtle" in the same sentence.

    Marcel is overt about being a weasel. Not in the sense that he admits that he is, but that its so impossible for him to hide it.

    Ilan is the one who's more subtle. Well, in his weaseldom if not in his food. You have to recall that a majority of the other cheftestants liked him. So if he's weasely its less about personal relations than it is rule following and such.
    W/regards to the other cheftestants who "liked" Ilan, if Betty and Mike were present the night Cliff was brutalizing Marcel, you're saying that they would be on the couch next to Sam cheering Ilan and Cliff to "get 'em".

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2229859;
    Mike displayed the exact level of motivation that he'd displayed throughout the entire show. That's not to say he was motivated -- just to say that he was no different than he'd always been. Marcel chose him for his team over the likes of two more motivated individuals because the vanity of having people who were nice to him was more important to him than having strong, motivated help.

    Further, a large part of leadership is motivating those who work for you. So of a lack of motivation in the help was a problem for Marcel, that was a problem he caused and should take responsibility for.
    Sam was nice to Marcel? I thought Sam urged Marcel to choose Mike. We know Marcel would not have choosen Frank and I don't know if he ever worked with Mia.

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeboxer;2229887;
    As for the fish incident, Makey was right. It was the SOLE responsibility of the head chef to make sure he had all his ingredients with him. It can be possible that the other chefs were not quite as motivated as he to win but it was HIS chance to shine, HIS chance to win the money, HIS chance to prove he should and could win. and HIS responsibility to make sure he had all means to do so.

    Just think. If this was the regular elimination round, He would be backing his knives and GONE!
    Mike was wrong. It's the sous chefs responsiblities to prep and make sure all ingredients are ready for the chef. Just like a nurse make sure all the surgicial equipment is ready for the doctor. Mikey was lacks as usual.

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1964;2229962;
    Sam was nice to Marcel? I thought Sam urged Marcel to choose Mike. We know Marcel would not have choosen Frank and I don't know if he ever worked with Mia.
    I mentioned the nice to Marcel thing as an explanation as to why Marcel did not choose Frank ... in comparison to Frank, yes, I'd say Sam was nice to Marcel. And IF Marcel had chosen people based on skill and motivation, he would have chosen Frank and Sam, not Mike and Sam. Who Sam suggested is irrelevant -- Marcel was in charge, not Sam.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1964;2229965;
    Mike was wrong. It's the sous chefs responsiblities to prep and make sure all ingredients are ready for the chef. Just like a nurse make sure all the surgicial equipment is ready for the doctor. Mikey was lacks as usual.
    But if something goes wrong in the surgery because of the equipment, the doctor gets sued for malpractice - not the nurse. The buck stops at the top of the food chain. If three accountants working for a corporation decide to cook the books illegally, the CEO is held responsible, even though he was not directly responsbile for the book keeping. When all is said and done, it does not matter if the person at the top was directly responsible for mistakes made -- the person at the top is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens underneath him.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2229968;
    I mentioned the nice to Marcel thing as an explanation as to why Marcel did not choose Frank ... in comparison to Frank, yes, I'd say Sam was nice to Marcel. And IF Marcel had chosen people based on skill and motivation, he would have chosen Frank and Sam, not Mike and Sam. Who Sam suggested is irrelevant -- Marcel was in charge, not Sam.



    But if something goes wrong in the surgery because of the equipment, the doctor gets sued for malpractice - not the nurse. The buck stops at the top of the food chain. If three accountants working for a corporation decide to cook the books illegally, the CEO is held responsible, even though he was not directly responsbile for the book keeping. When all is said and done, it does not matter if the person at the top was directly responsible for mistakes made -- the person at the top is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens underneath him.
    As for the doctor's reference, which I don't understand. Because your scenario of equipment being left in a patient to a cooking contest does not correlate. Most professions have assistants that have assigned duties to support the head person. Yes, the buck stops at the top but in understanding what went wrong their can be more than one contributing factor. Ie: Mike and Sam not doing carrying out their job responsbilties properly. 2. the stupid salad: Marcel's fault. Marcel was held responsible- he lost the title of Top Chef. But just as the titantic sunk- there were many factors that led to many people dying: not just the ice berg.

    As far a choosing people, Frank was the better cook, but would you worked with anyone who had threaten you- know mattter how great they were?

    Why can't it be fathom than many things can go wrong. This is a discussion of what went wrong with Marcel's dinner.

  7. #317
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    I agree that many things went wrong -- but they all fall on Marcel's shoulders. I don't believe that anyone but Marcel is to blame for his losing ... well, unless you want to "Blame" Ilan for cooking the superior meal.

    On the doctor's reference, I did not mean equipment being left in the patient. If a piece of equipment were not properly cleaned, the doctor used it, and it caused harm to the patient, the doctor would be held responsible. Even if he's not the one who cleans the equipment, he is responsible for making sure that the equipment is cleaned properly, and that the proper people are doing that job.

    On Frank - threat considered, if I were standing in Marcel's shoes, I would have undoubtedly chosen him over Mike. It would have been a lesser of two evils choice to a degree, but I believe that Frank was the best of the bunch to be chosen. The only strike against him is that he threatened Marcel. The question then is, was that threat so serious that it was still standing? If Marcel had chosen him, would he have had to spend the entire time preparing the final meal in fear that Frank was going to attack him. My answer to that is no. I believe the threat was made in anger, and Frank has the ability to keep his temper in check to not haul off and attack Marcel in front of cameras. Not to mention that enough time had gone by to allow bygones to be bygones.

    In contrast, the biggest weaknesses that Mike displayed are a lack of technical skill, a lack of motivation, and serving as a distraction in the kitchen to other members of his team on several occasions. Do those problems still exsist in Mike? Yes. So why choose weaknesses from one guy that still are present at the time of the competition over weaknesses from one guy whose weaknesses are most likely no longer present?

  8. #318
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    I think this all came down to a matter of trust. You have to have people you trust working under you...no matter what the field. Top skills are definitely a plus, but without trust I can understand being hesitant to select certain people. I have to be able to trust you not to set me up for failure, but I also have to be a strong leader (which I don't think Marcel, necessarily, gets yet.) Communication is extremely important, and I don't think Marcel really communicated well with his team. You can't just assume that people know what is on your mind.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

    When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, you know which one you hit by the one that yelps!

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1964;2229852;
    Sam and Mike were unmotivated especially Mike. It is the responsiblity of the sous chefs to prep the food and the cart. And when something goes wrong, it is plausible to have many factors contributing to the failure. Marcel said:

    1. I didn't consistently execute the meal (even though he was the main cook for the finale as opposed to Elia cooking for Ilan)

    2. Sam and Mike weren't motivated- Mike even said this isn't my gig.
    I don't think Mike was all that motivated but Sam was. What part of the meal that the judges had a problem with had anything to do with motivation or the lack of it? His salad choice was a disasterous decision. That was HUGE with the judges and had nothing to do with the sous chef's. The other part was the desert. While the judges loved it, Ilan hit it out of the park with his desert choices when compared side by side. That had nothing to do with motivation either. In one breath Marcel tells them they weren't motivated and in the next he confirms that Mr. Unmotivated help him with the best dish of the meal when something went missing. An ingredient the judges thought didn't need to be there once they knew about it. Where Marcel fell short were all issues that were his doing, not his sous chef's. He didn't know this when unwittingly tried to pass the blame onto them but the judges did.

    Ilan let Elia and Betty do their job as a sous chefs, marcel wanted to do everything himself. Ilan was smart enough utilized his sous chefs, Marcel was not. That was yet one more poor decision of many poor decisons made by Marcel that lost it for him.

  10. #320
    What? taffina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1964;2229965;
    Mike was wrong. It's the sous chefs responsiblities to prep and make sure all ingredients are ready for the chef. Just like a nurse make sure all the surgicial equipment is ready for the doctor. Mikey was lacks as usual.

    Sous Chefs take direction from the executive chef.
    Regardless of whether it's their job to do the prep...the organization of the kitchen is the responsibility of the executive chef.

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