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Thread: Marcel Vigneron - Season 2

  1. #241
    FORT Fan realfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith;2216170;
    Not true.

    - On the first elimination challenge when they were asked to comment on the other contestants' food, Marcel spoke up in favor of Elia's dish.

    - During the Eastern Promise challenge there's a bonus clip of Marcel asking another member of his team if they need help with something. This happened during the 90 minutes when Otto was at the store returning the lychees.

    - On the Camp Glucose challenge there's a bonus clip of Marcel talking to the kids. They love the food. Marcel tells them to thank Frank for making the pizza.

    - On the Social Challenge Marcel helps Mike and Ilan plate their food. After they serve their course he congratulates them.

    - On the Thanksgiving episode Marcel and Elia helped Betty with her brulees. At JT Betty blamed them for the brulees coming out wrong. Then she attacked Marcel for no reason, telling the judges she wanted him sent home because she doesn't like him. Afterwards, she cussed him out and called him selfish, but had trouble backing up her remarks when he asked for an example of selfish behavior.

    Marcel has been a good sport and a team player all along, but never got any credit for it.

    I agree with all of this and think the remaining contestants have resorted to blind scapegoating where Marcel is concerned.

    So he described his food to the judges/diners with enthusiasm. So what? String him up?! Sam did exactly the same thing, talking about his food and nobody rolled their eyes.

    So he moved Elia's steamer. It didn't negatively impact her dish, and he wasn't being malicious. What the heck was she talking about when she accused him of "cheating" on multiple occasions? When has he ever "cheated"? That's just slanderous. Of course, when pressed for examples, she backed off and couldn't back up the accusation. That's shameful behavior from a contestant in any kind of competition.

    While Ilan sits back and wussily gets Elia to do his dirty work for him, Marcel has never trash-talked another contestant or another contestant's food to the judges. Even when he was physically assaulted, he turned the conversation with the judges back to the food. Ilan is the one who trashed Marcel's dish to the judges at the Debi Mazar dinner. Marcel has always been content to let his food speak for itself.

    Marcel obviously rubs everyone the wrong way, but his actions don't strike me as underhanded or malicious or even all that provocative. Maybe it's a scent he gives off, or the Heat-Meiser hair.

    But it seems as though he's being piled on by a bunch of people who're stressed out by the competition.

  2. #242
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    I know it's all in the editing as well, but when Marcel was shown at home, he seemed to get along fine with his co-workers. Plus some chefs like Rocco in his reality show make it look like chefs are extremely difficult people to work with.

  3. #243
    FORT Newbie howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;2214682;
    But the fact that he doesn't deserve physical assault does not transform him into a hero, or even a complete victim. It doesn't redeem him that someone else in the show acts like a moron, even if that transgression is against him and is excessive.
    No, but I've come to admire Marcel for his ability to shrug off these assaults both physical and verbal. It really doesn't seem to phase him, and I like that. I think it shows a certain type of bravery. Many of the other contestants freak out over the tiniest transgression.

    Oddly, it's probably the only reason I admire him. Until this last episode, none of his dishes have appealed to me.

  4. #244
    FORT Newbie howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realfun;2216252;
    What the heck was she talking about when she accused him of "cheating" on multiple occasions? When has he ever "cheated"? That's just slanderous. Of course, when pressed for examples, she backed off and couldn't back up the accusation. That's shameful behavior from a contestant in any kind of competition.
    I just heard this interview with Elia on chow.com in which she talks about his cheating. She says that Marcel sneaked various powders (like agar) and also recipes onto the show, which is against the rules. Kind of like that guy from Runway who got booted.

    Here's the link:
    http://www.chow.com/stories/10424

    I don't believe her. If all the contestants knew about it, and they all hate Marcel so much, and they had no qualms about accusing others about cheating, I can't imagine that Marcel's cheating could have gone undiscovered. None of the other contestants have mentioned it in their post-exit interviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by realfun;2216252;
    Marcel obviously rubs everyone the wrong way, but his actions don't strike me as underhanded or malicious or even all that provocative.
    I think you're right. I think he's basically socially maladroit, rather than malicious. He's a geek. He's probably annoying in the same way that a know-it-all nerdlinger who likes to correct people's grammar is. But I don't think he's done anything to deserve the onslaught we've seen.

    I think that the whole groupthink mob-lynching mentality took over when it was given a greenlight by the apparently mentally unstable Betty and Frank. In Frank's interview with Chow, he still sees absolutely nothing wrong with his threatening Marcel.

    I have a feeling that if they hadn't opened the gates, the Marcel-bashing probably wouldn't have gotten past the eye-rolling/catty comment phase. Once Betty showed that it's OK to really beat the crap out of him, it was open season on Marcel. It all kind of snowballed from there.

  5. #245
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo1;2215460;
    In this latest episode Sam and Ilan present their dishes before Marcel. Marcel has thirty pieces of fish to cook so he has plenty to do before it is his turn to serve. Marcel has a problem because Ilan has commandeered every burner except one. (Who's selfish?) Sam asks Marcel to help him but Marcel declines because he is still working on his own dish. Marcel agrees to help anyone AFTER he is done cooking and presenting his own dish which seems both reasonable and sensible. If Sam wanted help, he should have asked Elia (dessert) who was scheduled to be the last presenter.
    I chose this point of the many given to discuss because its the most true. Yes, Marcel was put into a pretty bad position by someone taking all of the burners except one.

    But this also reinforces an earlier point of mine... the misdeeds or lack of others doesn't "fix" Marcel, excuse him for his own problems, or change him into a hero. It's only human nature coming out on boards like this where people feel COMPELLED to take a side and build arguments over good/evil and sinned against/sinner divides. Instead I choose to think it possible that BOTH people were acting like jerks, at various points. Marcel may have been the victim on that day, but he was an ass on others, and maybe even as some other point in that same day. One does not change the other.

    I have to admit to a bit of a "where there's smoke there's fire" assumption as well. I mean I just don't buy the idea that 14 of 15 other people (and maybe even Elia if you listen to the fact that she's now talking a tiny bit of smack against Marcel post-show) just decided they needed a whipping boy and Marcel was elected. Yes, I know that group dynamics often makes that happen in real life (heck I've been the victim of such once or twice in my life--many of us have been), and often very unfairly, but it rarely happens SPONTANEOUSLY among a group of people who are complete strangers to each other. This large group of people didn't have enough in common to be instantly cliquish among the lot of them to the exclusion of one little guy with funny hair. There HAD to be provocation, and considering how, like clockwork, they have all turned against him, it must have been ongoing. If he did more in later episodes to seem community minded, that's great, but we also often got to see him go off and sulk. Perhaps a legitimately unfair group-think dynamic had set in against him by that point, but its not like it didn't have its origin in a circumstance where early on there was nothing inherently setting the others against him more than anyone else. Heck, less, since he's one of the few who came into the show with a pre-existing relationship with one of the others, Elia.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  6. #246
    FORT Fan realfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;2216768;
    But this also reinforces an earlier point of mine... the misdeeds or lack of others doesn't "fix" Marcel, excuse him for his own problems, or change him into a hero. It's only human nature coming out on boards like this where people feel COMPELLED to take a side and build arguments over good/evil and sinned against/sinner divides.
    I agree with this statement theoretically. And absolutely agree that neutrality is fundamentally against human nature. However, in this particular instance, I find that, on balance, Marcel's behavior as a contestant has not been (or, rather, shown to be) provocative, malicious, or underhanded.

    I haven't found him irritatingly arrogant, as some have. He seems to possess competetive cooking skills and appears to want this competition to actually be about the food, rather than about interpersonal drama.

    So when you say that the bad behavior of other's doesn't negate Marcel's own bad behavior, that's where we disagree. I don't think his behavior has been bad. However, I do think that of the other contestants has been. Particularly in relation to Marcel.

  7. #247
    FORT Fan realfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;2216768;
    I have to admit to a bit of a "where there's smoke there's fire" assumption as well. I mean I just don't buy the idea that 14 of 15 other people (and maybe even Elia if you listen to the fact that she's now talking a tiny bit of smack against Marcel post-show) just decided they needed a whipping boy and Marcel was elected.
    I feel this way too, and keep thinking we're missing a big piece of the puzzle where all the hostility toward Marcel is concerned. This is why I think it must be a scent he gives off. Because reality show editors loooooove to cut together a villain, but they haven't really been able to do that with Marcel. The things about him that rub others the wrong way must be more ephemeral than concrete behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;2216768;
    Yes, I know that group dynamics often makes that happen in real life (heck I've been the victim of such once or twice in my life--many of us have been), and often very unfairly, but it rarely happens SPONTANEOUSLY among a group of people who are complete strangers to each other. This large group of people didn't have enough in common to be instantly cliquish among the lot of them to the exclusion of one little guy with funny hair. There HAD to be provocation, and considering how, like clockwork, they have all turned against him, it must have been ongoing. If he did more in later episodes to seem community minded, that's great, but we also often got to see him go off and sulk. Perhaps a legitimately unfair group-think dynamic had set in against him by that point, but its not like it didn't have its origin in a circumstance where early on there was nothing inherently setting the others against him more than anyone else. Heck, less, since he's one of the few who came into the show with a pre-existing relationship with one of the others, Elia.
    Well, I'm not sure I agree with all of this. Group-think and mob mentality are pretty well-documented among gatherings of strangers. That's one of the things that makes the phenomenon so interesting. Although, I'm not suggesting that's what's necessarily going on in this situation.

    Top Chef presents a rarefied environment: a competition in which the contestants both know that they each want to win and also that they're being filmed and want to be seen by the audience in a good light. In a situation like that, there's an unconscious group desire not to be the odd man out. Not to be the one everybody hates. Not to be the one getting the bad edit. And that could manifest itself in the way things have played out with Marcel.

    But, my gut tells me it's probably a combination of Marcel's personality and group dynamics...

  8. #248
    ... Ryvetted's Avatar
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    I'm lovin' Marcel. Science and food is hot right now and he's got so many talents. Did anyone see Iron Chef with the "Tech" Chef? He won again Morimoto! He was mighty slick!

  9. #249
    Aint I a lil devil? SuperBrat's Avatar
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    so... how many different foams is he gonna have in his final dishes?
    Pink Elephants on Parade!

  10. #250
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    How high is a mountain? How wide is an ocean??
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