3/8 Teen Mom Discussion Thread **spoilers**

[Tilden]

Of course you are right! That was a bit of sarcasm there, since every time I watch a "People' Court" type show I cringe when they must value an animal as property only. I know we love our pets so much more than that. I understand why the courts must see it that way, but still, I cringe. So yes, mea culpa!

I don't think a mea culpa is necessary. I figured you probably just used it as an expression, but given that I have a rescue dog who's put in over 500 hours of service at a nursing home, I cringe a little at phrases that could lump a dog--whether a service dog or a pet--in with a blender or a television or a basketball or anything else that might be considered merely property, since companion animals aren't just inanimate objects. I'm sure there are people that would consider me hyper-sensitive on the subject, so I actually debated whether I should even say something or not, but I just couldn't help myself. I kept picturing Jo treating a dog badly and his parents excusing it, because the dog didn't follow whatever arbitrary rules Jo set up for it.

[RealityRealmer]

I don't blame you- I would never wish having to live with Jo on any dog. He would probably refuse to feed him unless he only wagged his tail at Jo, and he would ask the cops "Say hypothetically I stop giving my dog food and lock him in a closet would that be ok with you guys?"

I despise Jo!!!!! (And I love dogs)

[MHcarrollton]

Not one hundred percent of the time, but at least more than 75 percent it is how the parents relate to each other, to others, and the structure they provide that makes the children the raise turn out the way they are. Other factor such as environment, schooling, etc contribute, but the adults in their life mold them mostly.

Barbara is acting the way she is because she just cannot understand why Jenelle does not get it. Why is Jenelle not behaving, why does Jenelle do these things. Yelling is usually from your parents, or out of frustration as a last resort. Barbara harps on Jenelle for the small things because she wants her to do them right so she has something to hope for. If Jenelle listens to the small things, which in Barbara's mind should be easy, than she will handle the big hard things right. When Jenelle does the small things wrong to Barbara she screams because than she knows that Jenelle will not do the big things right. This is a neverending circle, and Jenelle is like most kids in this situation, they just give up because they see no pleasing their parents.

Chelsea is the way she is because her father makes her feel she cannot do anything. If he just accepts her no matter what, and changes his course due to her stupidity over and over Chelsea will fail every single time. She has no reason to do better, and her doing bad leads her father to circle around her and support her more. Why should she succeed, why should she choose better, he truly does not expect it in the way a parent should. We should love our children unconditionally, but we should not like them or their choices with no feedback or comeuppances.

Leah and Corey are surrounded by love so they can love. The language that both of their parents give them is let them speak, and than talk. They have taught these two that their are consequences and that they have to live with their choices, but they will be there good or bad.

Kailynn is the strongest girl I have seen in awhile. She is even stronger than Leah and Maci in a lot of ways. She really has little support, yet I feel she is on the level parenting wise as Maci and Leah. She works two jobs, is a full time mother, and goes to school. Leah has Corey, her parents, his parents, no job, no school so she can give more time to parenting. Is it easy for her no, but she has more support and time. Jo is the way he is because his parents listen to his problems and basically agree with him and have that rabid parent ideal that they have to stand up for their own. Well newsflash your own can be wrong and needs to be told when they are period.

[prhoshay]

Has anyone ever noticed how much more effective it is to talk in a quiet, low-toned voice to, just about, anyone? The loud screaming and yelling gives you exactly the opposite of what you want to accomplish, and shows just how out of control you are....and the walls come down. The loud screaming is about YOU and YOUR frustration....not about the child, or the person with whom you are trying to make a point.

It's scary to think of how Barbara may have been raised.

[MHcarrollton]

All the therapists that have dealt with all the foster children we have had said that negativity is what kills kids feelings. They say that if you are yelling with informative information and structure and ideas it goes way further than talking nicely but with negative words. They all state that children need boundaries, and need to know when they are crossing them, and have consequences that are consistent. It is unrealistic to think that adults are not supposed to ever get frustrated and are not supposed to ever raise their voices. It is realistic though that the negative words and namecalling does not happen. Barbara has reached a point where negative words and namecalling are coming out. It is not ok for her to call her daughter a whore whether quiet or loudly. I am not so concerned about the yelling as I am about the namecalling and lack of respectful words.

[prhoshay]

You don't think that constant yelling just makes a person shut down? Unless you are a coach on a field, I think the person will learn to block you out. We can agree to disagree.

[MHcarrollton]

Constant yelling yes is not a good thing, but it is more what you say not how you say it. Remember when Katelynn and Tyler were on DR. Drew with Katelynn's mom and she made some comment that Dr. Drew said was abusive but she did not holler it. I am not a therapist so I have no clue what is better or worse and I will not have an opinion, I am just saying that every therapist I have dealt with over the years with the foster children we have had live with us stated that yelling is not dangerous unless it is accompanied with hateful nasty language that words is what kills feelings. They stated to me that sometimes kids will shut down with yelling, but that sometimes they feel the parents care more and want to do more if the yelling is combined with a plan or a comeuppance. However, if the yelling is yelling like Barbara has gotten to with the bad words than yes Jenelle is going to shut down.

[RealityRealmer]

I don't think the point being made by Carrollton was that yelling is ok or even good, but instead that MORE harmful than yelling is the content of WHAT is being said (or yelled). And as a nurse and therapist, I totally agree! Everyone loses their temper sometimes and raises their voice. But that doesn't mean you have to call names or use verbally abusive language, that is the harmful part.


ETA-- Carrollton we were posting at the same time lol

[prhoshay]

Just seems to me that if you start yelling, the chances are you are more inclined not be saying nice things. Going negative is closer at hand.

[RealityRealmer]

Some degree of loud voices and yelling is totally normal- its not awesome but its normal. It is what is being communicated that matters.