For some reason, this thread makes images of Inspector Cluseau pop into my concious thought?
For some reason, this thread makes images of Inspector Cluseau pop into my concious thought?
It could be the case, brusch, but I think the Survivors actually being THERE would have heard the instructions better than we would have .. and if they had been told "in ANY order" they would have relaxed, and stood wherever they felt comfortable, probably with their friends.Originally Posted by brusch
Because this part of the video was not really very clear and there were quite a few changes in scene in this part, I guess we will never know what they were told for sure.
Even if everyone is right about what they heard, the players lining up in the same order bothers me and until a completely plausible explanation (as I see it) is put forth, me being a supreme skeptic, I will always have this feeling in the back of my mind that this twist was pre-arranged.
To all the posters who say that the outcome of the tribal switch probably wasn't what MB wanted, I don't know. It may not have neen exactly what he planned but the way it happened was a godsend for MM - they could still lose another challenge (which they did) and vote off a Chaperan (which they didn't), and not any Chaperan, but Rob's closest ally (and deal a severe blow to the mastermind of the opposing tribe if they had).
That's quite possible, but the Survivors are pretty good at listening to instructions - some of the instructions for challenges are quite detailed and I often have no idea what they're supposed to do even if I am paying attention - and even if ONE of them thought that way, I don't think ALL of them would have misunderstood.After being paired off, if Jeff told them to simply get in a line they would do so in their pairing order because that's how they were and that's what they think they should do.
Again I think it's hard to say exactly how MB wanted the tribe reshuffle to turn out. As I repeat the result was the best one that could help MM along - they just didn't take advantage of itI don't think MB intended for just a simple swap to happen but they didn't go in a specific Chapera-Mogo Mogo order anyway. If anything, I'm sure MB intended on a reshuffling of the tribes to break strong alliances and prevent the Mogo Mogos from being the next 4 to go. It would have made for much better television.
I don't think he wants to help out any particular player even if they are his favorite, but I think if he can slant the challenges or twists to favor a losing side, he'll try to do it.MB manipulates many aspects of the game, but it isn't all in one players favor and it tends to even out. One case where it went too far was in the Outcasts return, but still the others should have known it was a win or go home situation and beat the Outcasts in the challenge. Most challenges seem so complex to set up in a remote location though that it all needs to be planned well in advance.
Bayolip, you are right that if one or more players shuffled around in the urn before picking the buff that may have thrown a wrench into MB's plan. As I've said, no plan is perfect or destined to work out 100% of the time. Perhaps if more of them had been suspicious like you, the tribal mix-up would have been completely different but I think the players on the whole do trust the process, many of them have said they place alot of faith in MB.
To mix up the buffs yourself you would have to
1. Believe that the buff picking was not random
2. Believe that the buff MB had wanted for you was not an advantageous one for you
I don't think any of the players had time to think that far ahead.
Maybe 'fixed' is a too strong word, 'manipulated' may be more acceptable to some.
I made that response to Siryn because she said she would not waste her time to 'conjure' up 'conspiracy theories'. In that case I wondered why she would then waste her time criticizing the same.
And Bayolip after reading your response I do feel I misunderstood your post and can understand your point of view.
The reason why I feel the show is 'stupid' is because I feel the twists often are done at the expense of fairness to a few of the contestants on the show. Some people may not care about this and simply want to be entertained, which is legitimate.
I don't like the twists I perceive to be unfair, especially to the contestants who perform well early in the show, and think that if they had not been unfairly 'penalized', the outcome of the shows may have been different to the ones we have been seeing.
For me keeping the game honest and having a legitimate winner is more important than enjoying an entertaining show.
Last edited by Gher; 05-22-2004 at 09:09 AM.
I think perhaps we had just misinterpreted each other.
But getting back on track, in some instances, I think there is some subtle manipulation, but not to discriminate against an individual, but to see whether the survivors can cope with added stress of change, and the unexpectability element. But the Amber trade wasn't in my mind such a situation that would need such an intervention. If anything could possibly have been an intervention, it would be the tribal trivia, seeing as though one would assume that the Mogo Mogan were a smarter tribe (basically, they had to have two extra challenges planned, seeing as though they didn't complete one at Jenna and Sue's departure). Though even this, would be hard to believe with a lack of evidence.
I'm with John on this one.
"They can only edit what you give them. They cannot manufacture a fictional character out of thin air." (Bill Rancic - 4/04)
Regarding editing reality TV: "You can't edit IN a bad personality." ("Cali"-11/02)
BB8 - A "conveyor belt of human garbage." ("Pono" - 9/07)
This isn't the type of manipulation the previous posts were referring to, I'm sure, but I saw something that John had posted on a closed thread in regards to Stacey from Survivor 1 having sued the shows producers that I wanted to respond to and this thread seemed most closely related, IMO.
On 'Guess which loser is suing the show and guess why' thread (closed),
"Burnett doesn't have anyone sign a waiver that they CAN'T sue, as far as I know. What they can't do is reveal any information about the "behind the scenes" production of his show. Which is why, when Stacey sued, he countersued, claiming that when she filed her lawsuit, she revealed protected production secrets."
I'm glad I happened along that dead thread to see the above comment. I believe I'd heard some time ago that someone had sued Survivor, but I never followed up on it because I was only interested in the show itself, not the world beyond it.
The way that Burnett chose to silence people seems pretty delicious to me, at least in the manner that John refers to. A contestant can sue, no prob, but (wagging finger) don't be thinking about sharing secrets (grin). This sounds a little manipulative to me, not that I'm complaining. I think its a hoot.
Personally, I have progressively started to wonder why the super secrecy about general behind the scene information is necessary. It just seems like it would add another dimention of possible interest to an already interesting show.
By the way, can anyone tell me when a Survivor thread for this year will become active?
Thanks in advance.
We always open the show threads closer to the time of broadcast , Usually when the official cast announcement comes or when one of our members digs it up from somewhere.
As for the Stacy Stillman case there is a ton of info online about the case. Just google it and I'm sure you'll find out what you are looking for. Basically Markie doesn't want you to find out just how closely he does control the game and that the survivors aren't really as stuck as they seem.
Thanks for your response, eny.Originally Posted by eny
When you have a free moment, would you mind elaborating on what you meant when you said "the survivors aren't really as stuck as they seem"?
I can think of a couple of ways to interpret that, and from my history in regards to guesswork, they're both likely incorrect.
Well for example, when Diane was dehydrated in S3 , they took her off set and rehydrated her with about two rounds of IV fluids, then returned her to be reanimated by Clarences bean offer on camera.
They are examined almost daily by a doctor and given vitamins.
They have used body doubles to reshoot certain parts of challenges to make them look more exciting, But Markie assures us he "doesn't do that anymore" since it came out in the press.
Instead of walking or paddling to the famous tribal council, they are usually driven.
I wonder.....am I the only one who actually thought they had to walk to tribal council? No? Just me, then.....I can't believe how naive I can be at times. The first episode of the first season of WWTMMD, I actually thought that was Don's house. So, here I'm thinking, the survivors are tired, sometimes soaked from rain, and they have to walk some distance to tribal council, and then all the way back to camp. Ha! I am so pathetic...... Sheeesh...Originally Posted by eny
Times where I believe there MAY have been manipulation on Mark Burnett's part in survivor
the Stacey Stillman Lawsuit Claim I think enough has been said about this to move on.
Tipping off Pagong Tribe what Tagi Tribe was up to If you have watched the Season 1 DVD, then you will see that as early as Episode 5 or 6, that the Pagong Tribe has somehow found out that Tagi plans on voting them out 1 after another. Joel even makes a case that they should do the same thing and it helps get him voted out as a result. Furthermore, we all remember Episode 7, when Sean Kenniff arrives in Pagong Tribe Camp. He is asked if it is true that the Tagi's plan on voting them out one-by-one. Sean ANswers "They were, but I don't think they are going to do it anymore".
The question should be asked "How did Pagong know about this?" That does not seem to be the kind of thing that you are just going to mention to the other tribe while waiting for a Team Reward Challenge. I think that it is possible the CameraMen or MB himself did not like the way things were heading and tipped off Pagong to try to prevent their "pagonging" and the bad ratings he suspsected might come ofit.
Jerri Manthey- I have always believed that Jerri Manthey was probably specifically cast (with MB's approval and probably even his own prodding) that jerri do things that were "provacative" for ratings. Can't prove this one iota, though.
Jeff Varner- See above, pretty much the same thing.
Episode 4- When Frank Garrison seemed quite confident that something was going to happen should he survive the next episode. There is a part of me that suspects that perhaps he was tipped off that there was a way out for him and not to all vote for Silas/Kim P/Brandon like they probably would have.
Episode 5- The Switch. If you listen to the "Tree Mail", they were told to send the 3 Tribemates they thought would be the best for a quest, and for the rest to stay put and wait for something.
Samburu responded by sending Silas, Frank, and Theresa. Silas makes sense, Frank and T-Bird does not make as much sense. It seemed like it would have made more sense to send Lindsey, at a minimum. It had been more then 4 days since her dehydration spell.
Boran, however, was more inexplicable. THey send Lex (Ok, good pick). Kelly. Perhaps they were told at least one male and one female had to go, which narrowed down her options. And BIg Tom.......
Wouldn't it have made more sense to have Ethan or Clarence go?
This goes back to the Generational Split and what Stacey Stillman is alledgeing. If Stacey is correct, then it is possible that MB Does take Demographics into consideration. If his test audience out there (and believe me, he has them) tells him that something is Ratings Gold or that something is Ratings Poison, I am sure things can change.
Based on the above, I think it is possible that his Test AUdiences told him the Generation Split and the Young DOminating the Old would turn people off. As such, he wanted things split up and the Young Samburu's destroyed.
It woudl explain sending Lex and Tom instead of Clarence and Ethan, if he was afraid that, based on going off their ages, that Clarence/Ethan might join up with Brandon/Lindsey/Kim P.
I have always felt the split was done in the way that it was to ensure the Young Samburu's were split up. Compared to how the Switch was done in MARQUESAS, it seemed that the Switch in S4 was done completely at random, which is how it should have been done in S3.
Yes, I am DKR.
Survivor ALL STARS was like the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy, at the beginning. IT was an unbeatable idea, had so much potential it was ridiculous.
But bad casting and decisions on both Mark Burnetts and George Lucas's parts have completely ****** Up the entire story.