Oh, I don't think RyanS was the sole reason Morgan got beat in that Reward Challenge. RyanO, who followed him, struggled equally. He managed to get the chest open, yes. And he deposited RyanS's cup, but he brought his own artifact back for Lill, who then put that treasure AND her own without losing ground to the Drake member who was swimming at the time. Christa pounded RyanO in her swimming leg. While he was thrashing about, she went out, got the big plate, put it in the chest and came back.
Originally Posted by Bill_in_PDX
I'm of the opinion that Darrah did nothing to justify her staying in camp over Lill. First of all, she is less of a help around camp, which is, I think, more of an issue than most people realize. Sure, the focus is on the challenges, but you have to be able to focus on the challenges properly when the time comes, which means having your camp in order before you go. If one person is not helping around camp and the other is, then the second person's burden must be distributed to everyone else around camp when they go. And they've already been losing challenges, even with Lill's help. At least if you jettison Darrah, you know you're not going to lose any ground on the camp front. And if Andrew ever pulls his head out and does what he says he's going to, maybe you can even think about making some headway in turning it into a pleasant place to pass your days.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that Darrah is a superior asset in the challenges. She appears to be physically weaker than Lill, due to her smaller size. And Lill proved her swimming ability adequately in the above-mentioned Reward Challenge. Sure, Darrah sat in the swing for two hours, and it's great that she did. But they're never going to see that particular Challenge again, and you can't be handing out awards for past performance in a special-case type of Challenge like that one when your tribe has to look ahead to what's coming.
I think Darrah was kept over Lill because she was younger and easier to control than Lill. That's a legitimate strategy if your tribe isn't on the brink of extinction, but Morgan is very much on the ropes and would have been better served keeping Lill.
From what I understand, Challenges are the big production events of the three-day cycles. There are many, many more people on hand than we ever see on camera. That being said, you're right that Jeff appears to be the sole arbiter of the rules during the Challenges. I think he needs to run a tighter ship, though. For all his in-your-face frankness at Tribal Council, he seems to want to give everyone a chance in the Challenges, regardless of the rules laid out.
Originally Posted by stargazer401
Personally, I think Jeff was giving Osten a LOT of chances by all the times he was saying "get the rope up" or whatever it was. He seemed to say it a lot.
I understood Lil's thing about the hooks to be she lost the NEXT to the last one. I am not sure that's right, but it's what I determined at the time.
Being the Rupert lover I am...during the immunity challenge, near the end, when Rupert looked over at Osten and grinned (and his sweet pirate eyes twinkled! Oops, getting carried away here) anyway, when he grinned right then, I knew he had it won. That man has such determination. (yay Rupert!)
I think one of Osten's problems is that he doesn't have faith in himself. He seems (to me) to be one of those people who perform better with cheerleaders, with people telling him how great he is, and with events so far he's doubting himself and basically sabotaging himself with his negative mentality.
That said, I didn't like Osten from the minute he sold his pants. And, I didn't like him saying he might leave. AND I didn't like him asking Ryan S. to vote him out. Osten is like a ball of negative energy. I DO think that one win may give Osten the mental boost he needs...but I still would like to see him OUT. I'm with Lil on the fact that as he was saying how his body was giving out, he could still run around throwing coconuts. Apparently his body is strong enough for what he WANTS it to be strong enough for. (kind of like when my baby girl tells me she's too tired to pick up her toys, but not too tired to play Playstation! Oh, 4 year olds, lol)
I was wondering if they could take a cork out of the opposite team's boat, and put it in thier boat if a cork was missing. I needed more information on rules of the challenge.
Oh..man..I SOOooo don't want the Drake tribe to throw a challenge. Even IF they're getting so sicka nd tired of Jon, NOTHING would justify throwing a challenge. I sure hope Rupert doesn't do it. Straighten the kid out if he's THAT much of a problem at camp and challenges...don't throw the game.
Sandra did kinda loose it for a while there. But who knows, I mighta "lost it too" if someone was saying I am the weakest swimmer. But she coulda handled it better I think, instead she just screamed and wanted to continue arguing.
I hate disagree with the master :props
Originally Posted by Paulie
But other than Lil talking about how hard she is working, I don't see her doing any more work, or less, and Darrah, who seems to be the invisible one. Well, Lil did do the fishing trip by herself, and we know how that turned out.
Further, Lil was doing things that were very bad from a gameplay perspective, as opposed to Darrah who may indeed be doing nothing, but is doing it under the radar. It is always about the gameplay, not the surviving.
Oh yea..I can't stand Osten. He may be an "asset" in some ways for the flailing Morgan tribe..but I also see him as being detrimental. He's his own enemy in my eyes.
Tijuana?! What does she do? Does SHE fish? Does she do A N Y T H I N G?? The only thing I've seen her do is complain and hug the Drake pillagers. Can't wait to see her do the walk.
Another thing I was thinking about...... they should switch the "leader". Apparently Andrew's "leadership" isn't working.
Lill and the fishing thing. I say BULLSH#T to everyone who was bitching about it on the tribe. She even said the night before that she was going out fishing in the morning. NOBODY said they'd go with her, they just all sat there staring at the ground. When morning came, they're all sleeping...she decided to do it herself. Then Rhino has the balls to bitch about it. When he was going off about how she "just left by herself"...I was shouting.."GO FIND HER THEN AND FISH WITH HER DUMBA#S"! I mean really...staying back at camp to complain instead of finding her...yea, you were doing better Rhino.
Then she lost the hook. DOH! :doh
Honestly...they made a bigger deal outta that than shoulda been. So she lost the hook, big whooop!!! It happens when fishing, perhaps they'd all know that if they were OUT FISHING!!! How does Andrew even KNOW how it was lost. Whatever.
Besides....think about this... IF ANYONE WAS FISHING BEFORE.. why would Lill have to say, "Do I know how to fish? No. Will I try to fish? Yes." That pretty much tells me that nobody has been fishing, so the one who has gumption and NO KNOWLEDGE of fishing has to take the bull by the horns (cuz nobody else will) and go fishing.
Granted, I'm going off of what Andrew and the others said as far as Lill's productivity around camp. And, yes, the gameplay is key. But I still don't think Darrah is more of a help in the challenges than Lill was. The mistakes Lill made in gameplay were in the interest of helping the team pull out of its funk. Darrah's total indifference while on the cove walk with Tijuana should have cast enough doubt in the minds of the "Big Four" to vote her out. They need commitment to the team out of whoever stays, as well as the ability to compete in challenges. I think Lill had both, and Darrah had neither.
I think of him as a consultant, Bill. "I don't actually do what I suggest, I just suggest it. :lol
Originally Posted by Bill_in_PDX
Morgan is a pathetic tribe. They screwed up in the village and have gone down hill ever since.
Before the vote, Andrew wondered if Lill could have done as well in the last IC as Darrah had. I understand that the harness wasn't exactly comfortable, but basically, he's wondering if Lill could have sat still in one place for two hours as well as Darrah could? Please.
I thought Darrah deserved to stay more than Lill did. When Andrew said that his vote was based on strategy, he must be hoping for a merge, and that Darrah would be more likely to stick with him than Lill. Which means that he knows that Morgan is finished as a tribe, and he's just hanging on.
I forget who said this but someone said:
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. If losing makes you try harder, then Morgan should have won last week, too. Morgan continues to make excuses for why they are losing. Rather than any of them saying "I should have tried harder" you hear them say "We aren't working together." or "Ryan S was weak." As long as they keep shirking responsibility, they will continue to lose. I thought Jeff's reaction to Morgan saying they're the better tribe was perfect - they're fooling themselves if they actually believe that - they're setting Survivor records for futility. And I love how Jeff grins when he points that out. :lol
Morgan may actually have an advantage by losing. It's going to make them want to win a lot more and make them fight a lot harder in order to do so, since they haven't had that thrill yet.
I believe that Andrew decided to get rid of Lill for the same reason I think he would get rid of Rhino if given the chance. He is insecure as a leader and doen't want to keep anyone around who might question his thinly veiled incompetence.
Originally Posted by Paulie
I agree whole-heartidly. Darrah shoulda been the goner. I haven't seen her do anything around camp either...and the whining while the challenge was going on. Lordy child..buck-up!! She's just sitting there while Osten is holding her up...if I were her, I'd of just bit my lip if it was hurting..cause obviously someone else was in MORE PAIN! Yea, she needed to be voted out.
Unfortunately...when Andrew was writing the name on the card and said, "This is strictly strategy...lets hope it works..."... I knew it was Lillian being voted out. I don't think the strategy is going to work though.
Oh, I started feeling bad for Morgan tribe. I was saying it during the show..until my gf started berating me for "feeling bad" for them losing. It's true...I CAN'T feel bad for them..it's a competition, and they're sucking. So..I take it all back.. lol
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