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Thread: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

  1. #41
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    Quote Originally Posted by mesachick
    I don't think anyone wants to date Reynolds lol, but I still don't see his comments anymore harmful than the usual guy talk that I've heard on occasion. I don't believe Reynolds is doing anything more than trying to create a boys club. Hell, we've heard plenty of women in other seasons talk about "using the guys for their muscle". We've seen them fawn over 6 packs, etc... of course the girls are thinking about how good they might be in bed. Girls objectify guys, guys objectify girls. What's the big deal? Like I said earlier, a lot of advertising plays on that. You really want to take this up as an issue, then I suggest taking that energy and focusing on the advertisers that make money on just that ideal. Pepsi, Go Daddy, Coke, oh the list would go on forever lol.
    We'll have to agree to disagree, here, mesachick, because I'm onboard as a fighter of this with Duckyface. As women have become more objectified in our society, our reaction has not been to diminish that, but to react with equal opportunity objectification. It doesn't make it right. Just like I don't think it's right that my 14 year old daughter went for a run on Friday and was followed by a group of teenage boys coming home from school who yelled comments at her. Boys being boys? I don't think so.

    If a group of guys talk about how hot someone is or how they'd love to do her in private, whatever. That's not what Reynold was saying here. He was saying Hope's entire value was based on her hotness. He was saying that every woman's entire value on the show was based on their hotness. None of them were hot enough, and simply dismissed by him. He was saying that unless they are f**kable, they have nothing to bring to the table. How would you like to work with a guy like that? You could be pretty darn sure he wouldn't be listening to you in the boardroom. It's such bad Survivor game play on the part of Reynold, I can't even believe it. It's a social game and a numbers game, and he's played it horribly.

    If I was on Survivor, I'd be looking for people to ally with based on their game play, their trustworthiness, how intelligent they are, etc. I'm sure, based on his fandom, Cochran would be a quick choice of many people. And I'm pretty sure most people would not say he was of no value to them in the game because he wasn't doable. (Whether they find him doable or not).
    Last edited by spockwhat; 04-14-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    I agree with spockwhat, and would just add--yes, some advertising contributes to this attitude. Personally I try to avoid these products, and if it's really bad even write to let them know why I won't be using their product. We each of us can only do what we can do, whether avoiding such discussions (about either sex), actively responding negatively when exposed to them so that the speakers become aware of what they are saying, and hopefully avoid such discussions in the future (even if they only avoid them around YOU they have now had their awareness raised as to what many see as offensive--who knows, they may even start to think about why that might be), boycotting products, writing letters or starting email protests about them, etc. When it comes to products advertisers are very sensitive to bad PR.
    Boys may be boys, but they will be the kind of boys their families, friends and societies tell them boys should be. Boys do extremely different things in different cultures--the male gender role is pretty much infinitely malleable (and therefore logically is the idea that there even is a male gender role--or a racial role--or a religious role--or a cultural role)--so if we want our society's idea of what boys/men should be to change we all need to contribute to that. In our society men are probably the most effective teachers of what boys/men should do, but women/girls can have an influence as well, assuming they want things to change. Doing nothing leads to no change.
    ok rant over. Feel strongly as you can tell.
    BUT in Survivor to survive one probably has to grit one's teeth and go along to get along....BUT you can make comments like Cochran's to indicate what one truly feels. So feeling very fond of Cochran these days! He's doing his bit to protest and ridicule that behavior, being a teacher of other males.

  3. #43
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    This feels like making a mountain out of a molehill. Reynold is a frat boy, an old frat boy, but still lol. He's not someone I'd date, but I don't think his comment equates to what a horrible world it is, etc. He's not a boss saying it about an employee, its not a work situation, he's not saying it to the girls in person, he's certainly not running after a girl calling her names, etc. Sure those things happen. I am sorry that your daughter had that happen to her, but what happened to your daughter was bullying, not sexism. I bet he really doesn't even feel the way he expressed himself. Locker room talk is what I heard. I always hear that girl locker room talk is even worse than guy locker room talk lol.

    As I've said before, I've heard guys say similar things about women, who go on and date girls that they treat like queens. They marry, have families.... they grow up. Reynold needs to grow up is all.

    Girls objectifying men in conversation is not a reaction either. Humans objectify other humans. Humans always have. This isn't something new. I don't see how you can change/fight what is human nature. Locker room talk has been going on since there have been locker rooms hehe. Reynold's mistake was saying it out loud while on camera.

    I don't necessarily like that advertisers use smoking hot girls in little more than a bikini to sell a car, or a website, but yet, if its a hot guy drinking a coke with his shirt off having women oogle over him (both of which are real commercials/print ads), that's ok? I think if someone is really serious about fighting sexism, that would be the place to start, and make sure to target ads that objectify both men and women. But then you have to wonder, why do advertisers use good looking men and women in barely there clothing to sell products? They wouldn't do it if it didn't help sell the products.

    I just don't see how you can take a comment made by an idiot who was trying to impress his bros and then try to apply with such a broad stroke across other situations. You can't. The people differ, the situations differ, the intent differs.

    Now with all that said, Reynold is clearly a jerk and a cad, I am not a fan of his, his game play has been poor, but he's not saying anything that isn't being said in locker rooms (men's and women's) around the world. He's certainly not saying anything that any of the other guys are putting any value to. I am not giving any value to it either.
    Last edited by mesachick; 04-14-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat View Post
    He was saying Hope's entire value was based on her hotness. He was saying that every woman's entire value on the show was based on their hotness. None of them were hot enough, and simply dismissed by him. He was saying that unless they are f**kable, they have nothing to bring to the table.
    This is the key point, I think, about Reynold's comment. It's not simply that he said that a woman was ****able, and, while a cruder word to use rather than hot, it wouldn't bother me as much. It was the fact that he said that since Hope was "the only ****able one" and that she was no longer there, none of the other women are worthy of being in an alliance and working with, which is why the guys all might as well stick together. This implies that (in his eyes) ****able women are the only ones worth associating/working with. And it was pretty stupid to say it on TV.
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    During the show when this comment, about women only being valued for their F*^#ability came up my husband said "You know, Reynold really hasn't had any relationships with the women on the island beyond wanting to make out with them, based on his perception of their beauty. It's not only stupid game play, but I'd bet he's the same in real life and doesn't value or have relationships with women based on anything other than his desire to F**# them. I wonder how his world view got so warped."
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  6. #46
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    Many years ago, we were watching a movie with friends, and I commented on the fact that the plot was good, but I didn't think the raunchy language added anything, and - in fact - detracted from the film. My (girl)friend said, "That's just the way men talk when they're together." Her husband said, "Yep, that's nothing compared to what I usually hear at work." My husband said, "I've never heard anyone talk like that at work, and we've never heard that kind of language when we're out with friends."

    So I've come to accept that language and attitudes can vary greatly, depending on where and with whom we socialize and/or work. Those of us who find Reynold to be offensive are valid in how we feel. We (speaking for myself) just don't understand why it's ever okay to disrespect other people based solely on gender, physical attractiveness, color, etc.
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    equal opportunity objectification
    .... THAT belongs on a T-Shirt!
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    I didn't hear him make the comment about anyone being f***catable. I know he has other strikes against him ... but ... does anyone think it is at all possible that he is trying to be a jerk ( and succeeding) so people will want to take him along to the end? Is it possible that this is some warped form of strategy?
    Last edited by Arielflies; 04-14-2013 at 07:41 PM.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    No. He was trying to bind the guys into a bros before hos alliance. It's been done before successfully on Big Brother, but, in this instance, I don't believe it will work. Malcolm recognized that the alpha males are upfront targets and should form an alliance to protect themselves, but I think Reynold was taking that concept to another level which screams hubris down the road.
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    Re: Reynold - Caramoan (Fan)

    I will agree that he is saying what many other men and women say. That doesn't mean it is right, but I do get that others say it. However, the point that everyone has made is this is the type of thing people say in locker rooms or at the bar (in effect, with your friends). This is not the type of thing people say out in public. And he does know this is a TV show, correct? More than anything, I think this just evidences how truly stupid he is, more than anything else.

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