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Thread: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

  1. #141
    FORT Fogey Midol's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Quote Originally Posted by Florimel View Post
    I am much more Dawn's peer in age than Cochran's, but she never would have gotten a jury vote from me. I think she came determined to prove that she could play cutthroat, whatever it took, and she did just that. I think both Cochran and Brenda did act as a kind of therapist for her and I found no disrespect in his saying so. Being courteous to my elders has always been a way of life for me, but there are some who do not deserve it based solely upon age.
    I am slightly older than Dawn and like you, I would also have cast my vote for Cochran. I don't think it is a matter of not respecting her, I give her props for playing her game and making it to the end. She didn't just coast and get dragged to the end. Cochran said it best: They both were themselves. They played to their strengths. He is uses his intellect and self deprecating humour to connect to people. She does it by getting more emotionally invested in their personal lives. This is how they are in the real world. Unfortunately for her, in this time and place, with these people, his way was more effective.
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  2. #142
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midol View Post
    Dawn does not seem to think Cochran is disrespectful. They still appear to be friendly. This is not a very respectful game...See Brenda and Dawn. What did Dawn in more than anything ... and I think you disagree on this point ... is that Dawn played a very emotional, tear filled game. Much more than we were shown. Everyone since the finale has said so in their interviews. Juries ... whether they be of peers or not ... never respect that. She's been here before and knew this. And as much as she got information to Cochran, it worked the other way also. As soon as Andrea mentioned that Dawn was a target, he went to her and got Andrea out. It was a mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship.
    Really? For her emotions to be the thing that really did her in is ... absurd! If they hated being around her so much why the heck didn't they vote her off?

    Also in my view there is no question ... Cochran was disrespectful. He is making fun of Dawn and others ... and I'll bet it's kind of the way I think people made fun of him for wearing a buff and other reasons. That type of humor will come back and bite him some day.

    It's over now, but I think Dawn got absolutely NO credit for all she did do . ... For her to end up with death threats because of the Brenda boot ... and tied with Sherrie is all just wrong.

    I know I have the minority opinion ... but as said ... it's okay. There have been times where opinions here changed my view but not this time.

    I just think Dawn had 2 strikes against her she's a woman and she's older than any of them. Add to that her emotions and Cochran's smooth lawyer talkin' and it was a no win.
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  3. #143
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    I think being around Dawn for 39 days, with her hysteria and paranoia, would have made me want to stick a fork in my eye. Add in crazy Stealth-Master, Pink-Panty, Special-Agent Phillip, and you can start drawing up the commitment papers already. I admire Cochran for his ability to manage both of them, stay calm and reasonable when he probably wanted to tell them both to shut the #$&* up, and carry out his game plan all the way to the end.

    Having said all that, do I think Cochran is completely humble and without fault? Not on your life. His "woe is me I'm just the nerd with serious anxiety issues and low self-esteem" persona began to wear thin a bit, even when he talked about himself in a humorous and self-deprecating way. It was almost like his comments were some kind of reverse or sideways snobbery. Like he was pointing out how he was better than they were.

    But having said all that, he definitely deserved his win.
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  4. #144
    FORT Fogey Midol's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Quote Originally Posted by echo226 View Post
    Really? For her emotions to be the thing that really did her in is ... absurd! If they hated being around her so much why the heck didn't they vote her off?

    Also in my view there is no question ... Cochran was disrespectful. He is making fun of Dawn and others ... and I'll bet it's kind of the way I think people made fun of him for wearing a buff and other reasons. That type of humor will come back and bite him some day.

    It's over now, but I think Dawn got absolutely NO credit for all she did do . ... For her to end up with death threats because of the Brenda boot ... and tied with Sherrie is all just wrong.

    I know I have the minority opinion ... but as said ... it's okay. There have been times where opinions here changed my view but not this time.

    I just think Dawn had 2 strikes against her she's a woman and she's older than any of them. Add to that her emotions and Cochran's smooth lawyer talkin' and it was a no win.
    I didn't say that her emotions did her in, but, they were certainly a factor. As to why they didn't get rid of her...and Cochran...I don't think people saw them as a threat. Certainly, not like they saw Malcolm or Reynold or Andrea or Brenda...until it was too late.

    Did Cochran make fun of her and others?...yes. Was it perhaps how he was made fun of?...maybe. But, all of them did or said some dumb things ... including Dawn ... and I don't hold it against any of them under the circumstances.

    I have given Dawn credit for her game and I think it is insane that people threaten her for playing a game and getting rid of an opponent who was clearly a threat to her in that game. I didn't have any problem with what Dawn did when she voted Brenda out. I thought Brenda was stupid for winning that reward and anyone who thinks that is a reason to threaten another person is as nuts as Brandon. As for her being tied with Sherri...I wasn't there. I didn't see and hear and have to put up with what they did so I have no problem with that either.

    Clearly you don't like Cochran ... and lawyers. I happen to like him and he has, in fact, become one of my favourite players. I clearly don't admire Dawn as much as you do, but, I don't have any negative feeling towards her either. I have always said that it is more difficult for older women to win this game. They are usually perceived to be the weakest and are often the first to go. Last season Denise won. A lady of similar age to Dawn. Their approach to the game was much different. If anything, Denise played a game much more similar to Cochran's. She stayed cool when those around her lost it...Lisa in particular. Both Lisa and Denise were close in age. Lisa played like Dawn, while Denise played like Cochran...and the results were the same. The player who maintained their equilibrium throughout and didn't get that emotionally invested won. I say that it is her approach that was wrong. It is a style of play that just doesn't win you this game whether your name is Lisa or Dawn.

    By the way ... I'm older than Dawn and I am not a lawyer!.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    I'm with those who think Dawn deserved more credit than she got... I wonder if the jury's view of her has changed any seeing the behind the scenes stuff now that the show has aired... But I also think Cochran was even better....so if there had been a vote for "2nd place" I would have voted for Dawn for that...and maybe some of the others would have, too, but there isn't. I agree it doesn't seem fair that it looks like she is no better than Sherri (someone who I think was also underestimated and then didn't make a case for herself at all at the FTC.
    During the FTC did you notice how as it went on Dawn kind of curled into herself protectively. She started out looking very pretty in the blue dress and sitting up straight so you could really see it. By the end all you could see was the buff she had on underneath it.

  6. #146
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midol View Post
    .... Clearly you don't like Cochran ... and lawyers. I happen to like him and he has, in fact, become one of my favourite players. I clearly don't admire Dawn as much as you do, but, I don't have any negative feeling towards her either. I have always said that it is more difficult for older women to win this game. They are usually perceived to be the weakest and are often the first to go. Last season Denise won. A lady of similar age to Dawn. Their approach to the game was much different. If anything, Denise played a game much more similar to Cochran's. She stayed cool when those around her lost it...Lisa in particular. Both Lisa and Denise were close in age. Lisa played like Dawn, while Denise played like Cochran...and the results were the same. The player who maintained their equilibrium throughout and didn't get that emotionally invested won. I say that it is her approach that was wrong. It is a style of play that just doesn't win you this game whether your name is Lisa or Dawn.

    By the way ... I'm older than Dawn and I am not a lawyer!.
    Uh Oh ! Misunderstood. It really is not that I don't like Cochran or that I admire Dawn.

    I am just trying to call it like I see it and I just didn't get all the love for Cochran and the death threats for Dawn.

    I don't think Cochran deserved a unanimous win ... and I don't think Dawn deserved all the venom.

    I personally think their games were closer .... much closer than the jury thought but Dawn was not able to express herself well.
    Really. That is basically it.

    I also don't dislike lawyers, although I may be a little wary or shy of them.
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  7. #147
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Quote Originally Posted by PWS View Post
    I'm with those who think Dawn deserved more credit than she got... I wonder if the jury's view of her has changed any seeing the behind the scenes stuff now that the show has aired... But I also think Cochran was even better....so if there had been a vote for "2nd place" I would have voted for Dawn for that...and maybe some of the others would have, too, but there isn't. I agree it doesn't seem fair that it looks like she is no better than Sherri (someone who I think was also underestimated and then didn't make a case for herself at all at the FTC.
    During the FTC did you notice how as it went on Dawn kind of curled into herself protectively. She started out looking very pretty in the blue dress and sitting up straight so you could really see it. By the end all you could see was the buff she had on underneath it.
    II did notice that she became the incredible shrinking woman.
    Dawn is just a marshmallow and couldn't bring herself to say anything mean or negative about Cochran. She is just too nice. and it cost her

    I wish they would have asked one of the standard questions which is asking them why the others shouldn't win and they should.
    "The way to become boring is to say everything." Voltaire

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  8. #148
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Had Dawn not been so emotional and annoying, she may have gotten a few votes. Her emotional behavior was so over the top that people couldn't see beyond it.

    Cochran deserved the win though. He was a better strategist than Dawn and played a better social game. In addition, he numerous challenges. It was his to lose.
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  9. #149
    signed, sealed, delivered maude~flanders's Avatar
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    Actually, I think Dawn was given a pretty good edit on the show. The jury members, and every single person who was with Dawn at camp said that she broke down emotionally on a daily basis! We didn't see that much of the crazy, so the producers were kind to her. Most likely, the reason people didn't vote her out was because they saw her as the "Philip" they could take to the end - knowing that she would never get a vote because of how she acted in camp. To be so fervently defending someone that we don't know, and we weren't there with her to witness how she acted may be kindhearted, but it doesn't come with any firsthand knowledge. We have people who are the actual witnesses to tell us what happened and they say that she was miserable to be around and an emotional mess. So, she received the same votes as the person who was pleasant, but didn't do anything. Seems fair to me.

    As for death threats - it happens every season, unfortunately. There are always crazy people who take these shows way too seriously and can't let it go. They need to sign up to be on a reality show themselves and see how it feels.
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  10. #150
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    Re: Dawn - Caramoan (Favorite)

    It doesn't make sense though. Why, if she was such an emotional wreck, was she considered a threat to win? While the "immunity threats" Reynold, Malcolm, Eddie, Andrea, etc. were on the radar, neither Cochran nor Dawn were considered threats to win... at least not enough to be mentioned or to deviate from plans to oust those people. Once they were gone, however, it was Dawn and Eddie who were considered the greatest threats. Sherri was a foregone conclusion, I think everyone felt safe taking her to the final three, but if Dawn was SO hated by everyone there, why did people feel she was a threat to win?

    I think, for Dawn, Brenda was the turning point of her game with the jury. Crying and mental breakdowns aside, I think without the Brenda incident, Dawn had a fair chance of a competitive final and at least placing second. I agree she had it tougher because she took on that "mom" role to many people (including Brenda) and no one takes kindly to their mom turning on them. Another big mistake was to manhandle anyone who was voted out... it does feel disingenuous and annoying. She was also against a somewhat chauvinistic jury... which I feel was one of the reasons Cochran decided to take her as opposed to Eddie.
    It wasn't these factors that caused her failure to gain one vote though:
    As it was, she couldn't beat Cochran's final arguments for a win. Given a choice between her and Cochran, everyone just saw Cochran's game as played better, and everyone awarded him as they saw fit. I don't think they equated Dawn's game with Sherri's, it's just how the votes played out when all was said and done.

    Initially, I felt Dawn was given a raw deal, and part of me still feels that way... however, it doesn't take away from Cochran's superior game. All of the chauvinism, bitterness, whatever, aside, Cochran won, and it was a fair win. If Eddie, Sherri, and Dawn were in the final, and Eddie had won, I think my reaction would be far different... I really would have been interested to know who would have rewarded Eddie in that kind of final three situation... I guess I'll never know.

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