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Thread: 12/16 Survivor 25 Season Finale Show Discussion

  1. #321
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Scarlet View Post
    I'm happy that Denise won. Of the 3, she did earn it more. As to the whole counselor thing, of course she used her counselling knowledge, skills & manner in the game. Just like everyone else uses their own skills from their real life to whatever advantage they can get in the game. If you're a builder, you build. If you're a fisherman, you fish. If you're a swimmer, you swim. Etc.

    Am I the only one who noticed (95% sure) Malcom in the previews for Fans vs Favorites? It also explains his appearance at the reunion show, which I thought looked a little haggard, in comparison to all the others.
    Nope, I caught it too. I think the sequence actually had quick pictures of all the returning players - and I'm sure a super sleuth somewhere could slow down the frames and figure out who they all are!

  2. #322
    FORT Fanatic kev89's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by judibug View Post
    FTC used to be statements to the jury from the F2 or F3, then jury questions, then the F2/3 got to make final remarks. I remember in particular Boston Rob being kind of shocked to find out during the questioning that he was so hated, and in his final remarks he apologized. Anyway, they haven't done that for a couple of seasons and I miss it, too. Instead of letting a jury member have the final say (like Penner last night) it would be more fair for the F2/3 to speak last.
    I think they took away the closing remarks when they swtiched from final 2 to final 3, I guess to save time with more finalists. I'd like to see them bring them back as well, it also gave the finalists one last chance to make their case, and to maybe respond to how the jurors behaved. I still remember on Vanatu when Chris basically kissed every single juror's butt in his final speech but hey, that worked for him.

    If they really were running short on time in the finale, I'd suggest they get rid of that corny fallen comrades walk instead of closing arguments
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  3. #323
    Reality Junkie jsciv's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    Well in order to win, you have to get to F3 first. Then game on. Like he said himself, he overplayed his hand. By staying with Lisa and Skupin, his F3 chances is 50/50 but by staying with Denise his F3 chance is 100%. He also could have just lied to Denise and went along with her plan to get rid of Lisa. Then Denise wouldn't have to scramble to get rid of him. Then turnaround and back stab her by voting her out instead.
    Fourth position vs. second position is still a late-game loss. I'd play to win, not just to F3. Waiting for F4 for "game on" is what cost Lisa/Skupin the million, after all (taking Abi should have been their play, odious as it would have been). I don't know if I'd be able to see the picture were I playing the game myself, but I don't fault anyone who makes their million dollar play early enough for it to mean something.

    The only case where Malcolm's wavering MIGHT have mattered was if Denise won immunity (and honestly Denise is a good enough player that I wouldn't have seen her taking Malcolm to the finals: she knew it was between the two of them). It looked like everyone knew that Lisa and Skupin were a voting block (editing of confessionals aside), so there's no way both Malcolm AND Denise are both F3 if L/S wins immunity, and both Malcolm and Denise knew that the other was their biggest threat, so I really don't see F4/F3 playing out any way other than M/D riding immunity in or L/S deciding who wins. Malcolm had a F3 deal in place with L/S and strengthening that was all he could do. I've been known to be wrong about such things, of course, but I felt all of this before the finale and it seems to have borne out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    Lisa/Skupin wanted to keep Denise more than Malcolm because they thought they have a better chance against Denise than Malcolm.
    Sadly, as I said above, they waited a couple of TCs too late to make that decision matter since they had little chance against either one.

  4. #324
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom View Post
    Nope, I caught it too. I think the sequence actually had quick pictures of all the returning players - and I'm sure a super sleuth somewhere could slow down the frames and figure out who they all are!
    Click to see Spoiler:
    I went frame by frame and recognized Russell Hanz, Coach, Rupert, Tyson, JT(?) and Johnny Fairplay. This doesn't match other spoiler lists I've seen so who knows.....
    Last edited by Arielflies; 12-18-2012 at 12:15 AM.

  5. #325
    Reality Junkie jsciv's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by judibug View Post
    FTC used to be statements to the jury from the F2 or F3, then jury questions, then the F2/3 got to make final remarks. I remember in particular Boston Rob being kind of shocked to find out during the questioning that he was so hated, and in his final remarks he apologized. Anyway, they haven't done that for a couple of seasons and I miss it, too. Instead of letting a jury member have the final say (like Penner last night) it would be more fair for the F2/3 to speak last.
    It's possible that they F3 still DO make closing remarks but that they are sometimes included and sometimes edited out. Jeff's explanation of "here's what will happen" was done completely in voice-over this time, so he could have come back and re-explained it omitting the existence of closing comments.

    That said, they could also have known that putting Penner in the final spot would make a good close, too: the most eloquent man out there finishing up the TC in style is a pretty safe bet...

  6. #326
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    While I was surprised Lisa won fan favorite, I doubt the Pope had anything to do with it. First, I'm not even sure Lisa is Catholic. Second, even if she was, American Catholics are notorious for going their own way regardless of what the Pope says. Third, not all Christians are Catholics, so he couldn't "order" them to do anything anyway. I'm Lutheran and wouldn't give a fig what the Pope thought, unless I happened to agree with it for my own reasons.

    I'm assuming it may have more to do with the fact that it was seen as a consolation prize by voters who figured Malcolm would win anyway, so they might as well vote for someone else for fan favorite. Can't really blame them. Even the other members of the final four figured Malcolm had the best shot at winning.
    ilja, jucamer, Photobabe and 1 others like this.

  7. #327
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    I wonder just how much F3 speeches matter to the jury. I think their minds are made up ahead of time and unless something very signifigant happens they know how they will vote.

    Malcom does not have an attractive upper lip and his mustache is not hiding it. It may make it look worse. Young men with facial hair is tricky for starters and it does not work for him. Just sharing. Carry on.

    In resonce to a post way back, Malcom is NOT a teacher and I doubt he ascribes to be one. Kids volunteer to teach English in foreign countries to have an adventure. The teaching they do is scant and they are housed and fed. AND they have to be funded by parents; they do not supply airfare. It is a thing to do now instead of hitchiking around the country or joining the Peace Core (I think that is defunct now). Noble, no. A fun thing to do, YES!
    Last edited by Shoepie; 12-17-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #328
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoepie View Post
    Malcom does not have an attractive upper lip and his mustache is not hiding it. It may make it look worse. Young men with facial hair is tricky for starters and it does not work for him. Just sharing. Carry on.
    Someone had to say it

  9. #329
    FORT Fanatic kev89's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoepie View Post
    I wonder just how much F3 speeches matter to the jury. I think their minds are made up ahead of time and unless something very signifigant happens they know how they will vote.
    I think it really depends on the individual jurors and finalists. I'm sure some have come in knowing who to vote for, some had an open mind, and others leaned towards one finalist, but were possibly swayed towards another. I remeber when Amanda made it to the end twice and lost both times, apparently several jurors were leaning towards voting for her, but Todd and Parvati pulled off better performances for the jury.

    The thing I like about the final speeches is that it gives the finalists one last chance to react to juror's comments and questions after they've had a few moments to think about them. Whether or not that makes any actual difference in the result I don't know, but I imagine the finalists would feel a bit more comfortable having the last word.

  10. #330
    FORT Fanatic kev89's Avatar
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    Re: 12/16/12 Season Finale Show Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    While I was surprised Lisa won fan favorite, I doubt the Pope had anything to do with it. First, I'm not even sure Lisa is Catholic. Second, even if she was, American Catholics are notorious for going their own way regardless of what the Pope says. Third, not all Christians are Catholics, so he couldn't "order" them to do anything anyway. I'm Lutheran and wouldn't give a fig what the Pope thought, unless I happened to agree with it for my own reasons.

    I'm assuming it may have more to do with the fact that it was seen as a consolation prize by voters who figured Malcolm would win anyway, so they might as well vote for someone else for fan favorite. Can't really blame them. Even the other members of the final four figured Malcolm had the best shot at winning.
    Good points. I'm Catholic, but even if the Pope threatened to excommunicate all who didn't vote Lisa for fan fav, I'd still vote for Penner 10 times

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