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Thread: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #81
    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Longhornfan View Post
    I agree with everything that you said but just shortened your post. And, I also see Coach as behaving as a hypocrite, claiming to be a man of honor while displaying something all together different. I will be interested to hear what he and Brandon both have to say at the reunion show.
    I agree as well. I have never really been a fan of Coach, but this season I dislike him even more. At first he was palatable, but as the season has progressed, I have liked him less and less. I am not very religious at all, but when someone uses the "faith" that they supposedly believe in to manipulate others the way Coach has been doing, it irritates me to no end. He's been talking out of his ass. I wish the others would get a clue and vote him off before the final 3.
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    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by mesachick View Post
    I agree as well. I have never really been a fan of Coach, but this season I dislike him even more. At first he was palatable, but as the season has progressed, I have liked him less and less. I am not very religious at all, but when someone uses the "faith" that they supposedly believe in to manipulate others the way Coach has been doing, it irritates me to no end. He's been talking out of his ass. I wish the others would get a clue and vote him off before the final 3.
    I couldn't agree more. Coach is so full of it. There were times when I wanted to like him this season, and I did enjoy him on HvV, particularly his Jerri-crush, but this time around he's just so completely and utterly full of crap.
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  3. #83
    Ellie May SugarMama's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I guess I see Coach differently in that I think he uses the dragon slayer persona and this year his religious/honesty/integrity emphasis as merely a way to manipulate others so that he can win the game. I don't see it so much as being a hypocrite as in just playing the game. He might well be this way in real life, I don't know. Regardless, one-third of Survivor's motto is "Outwit" and I just think that's what he's doing. I don't take it personally - if he wants to be fake about it, I'm not the one he'll have to answer to someday.

    Whitney, on the other hand, did something bad but it wasn't game play, it was just bad (adultery). To me there's a difference.

    So, I know Coach is "icky" to a lot of people, I guess I just don't really care, I just enjoy watching how it all plays out.
    To return evil for good is devilish; to return good for good is human; to return good for evil is Divine - Alistair Begg

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    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I kind of agree with you, SugarMama. The reason I'm not sure is because I don't know if Coach is playing the game or if he really believes it. I think it is icky and underhanded. But it is a game and the game, to a certain extent is about manipulation and lying. Some of the players see through it and others fall for it. That is part of the game and while I never like someone using religion as a game, I do get that part of it. But if he really believes it? Well, then I agree with those who have pointed out his talk about honor and integrity while backstabbing people, and then saying it was God's will. Those people scare me a bit, if they really believe that - like that absolves them from every terrible thing they do in the world. If that is what is going on, well, that I can't get behind.
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  5. #85
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    If he didn't at least partially believe it, why did he actually get down on his knees and pray... twice? "The same name kept repeating over and over..." He can lie to Brandon all he wants, but why lie to the viewer?

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    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat View Post
    If he didn't at least partially believe it, why did he actually get down on his knees and pray... twice? "The same name kept repeating over and over..." He can lie to Brandon all he wants, but why lie to the viewer?
    And if he didn't believe it, then that scene would be all a sham, all for show, grandstanding, if you will. That just seems really icky to me. Now, to be fair, I love BRob and he did a lot of grandstanding to the camera too (tossing the HII clue into the volcano with a cheeky grin) but that, at least to me, was more him saying to the viewer "Look, I know I'm a stinker, and I'll laugh about it after because in my real life I'm just a normal guy who loves his wife and kids, but on this show I'm "Boston Rob" and I've got a persona to uphold here!" - whereas to me, Coach really seems to believe all of this, to be completely sucked into the spirituality, speaking to God, hearing one name over and over. He seems tortured by all of it, and to me that says he is taking it very seriously indeed.

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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by PWS View Post
    spockwhat, I think that's an excellent analysis of what motivates Coach---he lives to be looked up to.

    And I'd also like to see an atheist season, but they they don't have to be all highbrow intellectuals...I'm sure there are some ditch digger atheists out there!
    High-brow doesn't exclude ditch-diggers. Every atheist I know comes to be so by way of reason, e.g. lack of proof of a god, etc. They've thought about things and made a decision.

    Could be a ditch-digger, a nobel prize winner, a 12-year old kid, or some unread person from the hills. The only thing that matters is that thought is involved in the decision. And those are who I would like to see play this game.

    This is also the reason I'm liking the morality talk in this season...thought is involved (even Brandon has thought things out and comes to his decision).
    Last edited by Jexter; 12-16-2011 at 07:18 PM.

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    FORT Fogey jucamer's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I don't know if Coach believes everything he says and does - I am just enjoying this season and for some reason I really like him. Maybe I feel bad for him after all he went through with his family after his first go around. And then Jerri toying with him on HVV. He's a hard nut to crack & although some of his actions and decisions make me go hmmmm - I like him.
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  9. #89
    FORT Fogey hot_chocolate's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    You know, I don't think it's even that some of the players are bad examples of Christianity. I think they're bad examples of humanity, period. I know the game encourages lying, manipulating etc., but when it's used against people who are so utterly guileless and trusting, I'd like to see a little remorse on the part of the people doing the lying and manipulating if I'm expected to think they're decent people. If they're like Johnny Fairplay, and they really don't care what people think or they revel in their villain status, that's one thing. But when they're supposed to be advocates of loyalty, honesty, and integrity, and they claim their decisions that go against that are what God told them to do, so as to absolve them from all responsibility for their decisions, that's quite another.

    All through the game, Coach has done any number of things that aren't exactly "Christian" or honorable.
    Great post. I agree. The former Upolus (some much more than others) keep stating that their "mantra" is "honour, loyalty, and integrity" and none of them have really stuck to that. It would be hard to stick to it completely in a game like this. They will repeat that mantra and be upset when they catch others lying (Albert, in this most recent episode), even when they themselves have not stuck to it either.

    The main problem I have with the "it's God's will" explanation is where you draw the line between "God's will" and free will (one's own actions). Since Coach was able to attribute his "decision" to vote out Brandon to "God's will", couldn't a person attribute all their game decisions to God's will, saying that they asked God for guidance in each decision? If one decision was due to God's will, why not others? And if a decision is due to God's will, no one can really be upset with you for making it, since it was God's doing and not your own. At what point does God's will stop and one's own actions begin? It's all very confusing to me in that regard.

    I'm hoping for a Sophie win. She's very smart and she doesn't seem to appreciate the self righteous repeating of the mantra and bringing religion into the game constantly, but has kept her mouth shut about it to keep the peace. I also liked her observation about the Ozzy pleasure dome. I had never thought of that.
    "In spite of all the temptation you have endured, all the suffering, you remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of eleven, when you stared into a mirror that reflected your heart's desire, and it showed you only the way to thwart Lord Voldemort, and not immortality or riches."

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    PWS
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Jexter View Post
    High-brow doesn't exclude ditch-diggers. Every atheist I know comes to be so by way of reason, e.g. lack of proof of a god, etc. They've thought about things and made a decision.

    Could be a ditch-digger, a nobel prize winner, a 12-year old kid, or some unread person from the hills. The only thing that matters is that thought is involved in the decision. And those are who I would like to see play this game.

    This is also the reason I'm liking the morality talk in this season...thought is involved (even Brandon has thought things out and comes to his decision).
    No offense meant to ditch diggers who surely can have thought through their atheist beliefs as well as anyone else. I just didn't want to see a season made up of "high-brow atheist intellects" that you said you wanted (quote from the post by you that I was responding to). To me that connotes people who are upper class almost professional intellectuals. I see way too many of them at work, and they are dull as dirt when it comes to what I want on my TV. But maybe I misunderstood what you meant by the phrase.

    Anyway, I'm really, really hoping next season brings zero prayer circles. I find them really coercive in the Survivor situation, even when people aren't being yanked to their knees as Edna was....kind of like having prayer in schools. If you want to pray go off by yourself and do it, don't force everyone else to either go along or look like some kind of evil anti-God person and an easy boot.

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