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Thread: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #51
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I think for as smart as Cochran is, he is only thinking about surviving a few days at a time. I agree with what others have said above. Picking the rock could have gone either way. As it was, the teams were split 6-6. If an Upolu picked the rock, then Savaii has a majority. By flipping, Cochran has shown himself untrustworthy to both tribes - because he was willing to flip. Upolu might protect him, because he is not a threat - but unless he wins immunity, he is going out in 7th as a member of the jury. If by some miracle he does make it farther, he has guaranteed that he will never win - because now the jury will be filled with Savaii's, who will never vote for him and Upolu's, who will vote for whoever is left from their tribe over him. I get the feeling with regard to chance, but I think there are plenty of chance actions in this game. Just look at Ozzy taking the chance by going to RI. Sometimes chance is what you really need, when there is no other way to turn the tables. While I understand Cochran wanting to take control, he did not think it through and it was not a good strategic decision for him.

  2. #52
    FORT Fogey march's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I don't really see anything wrong with Cochrane's decision. I wouldn't want my fate down to the dreaded purple rock either. Also if he had gone along with the rock decision and one of the Savaii members pulled the purple rock they would have been in the minority and who is the first one they would have thrown under the bus next TC - Cochrane of course.
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  3. #53
    FORT Fogey jammyjoe's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I totally agree with everyone's negative comments on Cochran which shall be named Cockroach from now on because he should have been gone a while back yet still managed to survive. Jim's plan is now biting him in the ass for voting off Elise. Loyalty is indeed important and Coach was able to instill this in his tribe. If Savaii still had Elise, they would not have to worry about Cockroach because Elise would not have betrayed her tribe but Jim thought that he could trust both Cockroach and Dawn. I think Cockroach's plan to flip was too soon considering that he will be 7th in Upolu's ranking order as oppose to being 6th in Savaii. He would have been a great double agent if his judgement was not being clouded by his emotions. Jim called him a coward because he didn't want to draw rocks with him. Only he and Jim were exposed (Oz, Dawn, Whitney, and Keith had immunity --- I guess they changed the Purple Rock rule because I thought the two who tied in the votes would still draw rocks along with the others with no immunity but I would have preferred Rick and Keith to battle it out by making fire with a flint) from the Savaii tribe but 5 of the Upolu tribe were exposed so the odds were against Upolu. Jim was of course the one that was hurt most (that is still in the game, Keith takes the cake otherwise) because he thought he had a secret alliance with Cockroach and Dawn and for the sake of the tribe he was willing to draw rocks. What Dawn should have done was tell Jim that Cockroach was thinking of flipping, maybe they could have convinced him not to flip. Dawn could have solidified his alliance with Jim and Jim could have drawn some sense to Cockroach's thinking.

    At first I thought it didn't make sense for Ozzy thinking that he should go to RI instead of Cockroach because they could have easily brought Christine into their tribe in place of Cockroach. Christine was ready to flip and hated Upolu. She was a sure ally, but in reality, Ozzy just wanted to earn his tribe's trust and loyalty back (after they rid of his closest ally) by doing the risky move. Practically telling them that he will lay his life out there for the tribe. More importantly, he wanted Cockroach to feel that he belongs and ensure his loyalty. Ozzy thought that by not sending him to RI and by giving the HII to him, Cockroach will never think of flipping. If they sent Cockroach to RI and won, surely he would flip. In effect, Ozzy had two motives, he was killing two birds with one stone. Unfortunately, it backfired. For Cockroach to play double agent for them would have been a great move but Upolu saw through the charade and the weasel became a double agent against his own tribe.

    If Ozzy just said that Cockroach played the HII against him then stopped at that, then it would have been more believable. Savaii were happy to see Ozzy win except for Cockroach and he wasn't play acting. Seriously, if Oz lost at RI, he not only has to play by Oz's rules, he would have his HII and he could take charge. Someone said why Savaii was so happy that Oz won, it's because as Oz explained, his story was the tribe was voting out Cockroach who had the HII and so he voted him out. Anyway, I think Oz made the game too complicated. If he (and the rest of his alliance) just sent Cockroach to RI, most likely they would have had Christine voting with them and they will not even 2nd guess if Christine will turn against them. All this planning by Oz were all for naught because of a weak link in their alliance.

    I guess I missed the fact that Cockroach told Upolu that Savaii is voting for Rick but it seemed Rick didn't know because he looked surprised, otherwise, he would have asked for the HII. Savaii overthought their game. They gave Upolu too much credit thinking that either Coach or Albert will play the HII so they voted for Rick and also the fact that they thought Upolu was smart enough to vote Whitney instead of Keith because Keith was too obvious of a choice. If Oz just gave the HII to Keith, Rick would have been out. I think Dawn changed her mind to not flip because she has immunity, otherwise, she would have flipped too. Anyway, if Cockroach was thinking straight, it's 5 against 2. Savaii had 4 people with immunity, the odds were with them, and Cockroach took that edge out. It was too soon to flip but he was a coward. Not only that he betrayed his old tribe, he also made them use their HII. Someone said, why did Oz reveal that he has it? Because he was going to play it at that TC so it's not going to affect his game in anyway after it's been played.

    It's stupid of Cockroach to reveal all the information from his old tribe. He could have used the info he gathered from both tribes to his advantage. I really don't know what he's gained on this move of his except disgust and hate from the his former tribe while he just ranked even lower switching to the other tribe. He could have waited on the next TC to see how all this would play out. I think his mental and emotional immaturity showed in this recent episode. I also thought that they trusted him too much considering he's their 6th man. What Savaii should have done was to tell Cockroach that they are giving the HII to Whitney. This would then prompt him to tell Upolu which he did. But Ozzy should have turned around by giving the HII to Keith who is the obvious choice to vote off. This in turn would reveal Cockroach that he is not loyal to them.
    Last edited by jammyjoe; 11-03-2011 at 03:43 PM.
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  4. #54
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by march View Post
    I don't really see anything wrong with Cochrane's decision. I wouldn't want my fate down to the dreaded purple rock either. Also if he had gone along with the rock decision and one of the Savaii members pulled the purple rock they would have been in the minority and who is the first one they would have thrown under the bus next TC - Cochrane of course.
    I agree. I would prefer, if it did come down to a tie, they make fire instead. Leaving a million behind because of rock is stupid
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  5. #55
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by march View Post
    I don't really see anything wrong with Cochrane's decision. I wouldn't want my fate down to the dreaded purple rock either. Also if he had gone along with the rock decision and one of the Savaii members pulled the purple rock they would have been in the minority and who is the first one they would have thrown under the bus next TC - Cochrane of course.
    I understand your point. But the reality is all he bought himself was 3 more days. I get that the game is Survivor and for most the point is simply to survive from day to day. But I think we are down to the point where strategy has to come into it as well. Given the numbers, I think it is much more likely (although obviously not certain) that an Upolu would have picked the rock. That would swayed things in Savaii's favor. Cochran has bought himself 3 more days - but at what cost. There is no where he can go from here. At this point, his game is over and he is waiting to be voted out. Sure, they will pick off the other Savaii before him, mainly because he is not a threat. But if nothing else, he has seen very clearly how strong the Upolu alliance is. He isn't breaking it. If he had stayed with Savaii and pushed his sub-alliance with Dawn and Jim, he stood a chance of making it further - and of not completely alienating the jury who would eventually have to vote him a millionaire. So yes, it was a chance and that sucks. But the alternative in this case is worse - and that is why he is not a good strategic player . . . .because he couldn't see that.
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  6. #56
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisoo View Post
    I agree with you, Fanny Mare I wouldn't want to see any of them pick a rock to go home. At the same if that did happen it would have changed the shift of the game as well. When the tribes merge, I hate seeing one tribe picking off another, I like seeing both tribes having secret alliances so I didn't mind Cochran flipping because he flipped. Dawn should have either flipped or told her tribe. I don't know why Jim calls Cochran a coward because what he did took balls. I actually found it sweet when Brendon stuck up for Cochran.
    Careful thats twice now we have agreed I have a feeling Cochrane doesnt go next( well I am hoping)

  7. #57
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Mare View Post
    Careful thats twice now we have agreed I have a feeling Cochrane doesnt go next( well I am hoping)
    I agree with you there. I think, unless something crazy happens, we will now see the Savaii tribe picked off one at a time. If so, the next 4 weeks may be a bit boring with Ozzy, Jim, Whitney and Dawn being voted out in whatever order Upolu decides. Then the real drama will start in the race to the end.
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  8. #58
    8/2/64 until forever! AZChristian's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    The probability is that he actually bought himself less time in the game since he went from 6th position in his tribe to 7th position on Upolu.
    I think I'd rather be low man on the totem pole of a larger group than part of the smaller group (if the rest of Upolu sticks to the plan and votes out all of Savaii first).
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  9. #59
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom View Post
    I agree with you there. I think, unless something crazy happens, we will now see the Savaii tribe picked off one at a time. If so, the next 4 weeks may be a bit boring with Ozzy, Jim, Whitney and Dawn being voted out in whatever order Upolu decides. Then the real drama will start in the race to the end.
    The cowboy, what's his name again. I think he should go next.I dont know why, I just feel he has contributed nothing, including speech.LOL

  10. #60
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Mare View Post
    The cowboy, what's his name again. I think he should go next.I dont know why, I just feel he has contributed nothing, including speech.LOL
    Rick. I agree with you - hilarious that we are how many weeks into this season and I still forget he is there! Wishful thinking though - unless something crazy happens, Upolu has a strong alliance. I actually see Coach and Sophie as the F2.

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