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Thread: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

  1. #401
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    I agree that once Rob got Natalie to the end, it was a mistake for her to trust him anymore and take his advice about FTC, but this speaks to her naivete, and why I think somebody like Natalie is just too young for this game. It was painfully obvious that even if Rob had told her exactly what to say to really beat him, her extemporaneous speaking skills are just not strong enough to pull off a coherent argument. However, prior to that, everything that Rob advised Natalie to do, which she followed, was probably the only way she was ever going to make it to the F3. So yes, he chose her because it benefited him (and he was the only one on his tribe who realized that her youth would hamstring her eventually and attempted to exploit that), but it also benefitted her, probably more than an alliance with anyone else would have. Case in point, sticking with Ashley wouldn't have gotten her to F3. I do think she will learn from this experience, but don't worry that she is in grave danger of being hoodwinked in the near future by some older man. As has been said repeatedly, Survivor isn't real life.

    I agree that Rob should just leave the Grant situation alone, as he and Grant apparently do not think alike. I read an interview where Rob said he expected if anyone would understand the adage "it's a game" it would be NFLer Grant, but apparently not. And yes, until and unless Grant speaks on the subject, we don't know the real reason for Grant's shift in attitude toward Rob, but I tend to believe he feels betrayed and made a fool of by someone he thought was his "equal partner" and is still smarting from it, especially having to hear the fallout every week from his crowd. Maybe he'll get over it in time. The Survivor alums do seem to get together for reunions every now and then, so I doubt the fact that Rob isn't "geographically attractive" has anything to do with Grant's behavior. (Grant is from CA, I believe, Rob lives in FL.)
    Rob is terribly mistaken if he believes Grant would be the one person to understand "it's a game." Yes, Grant is an athlete who spent years playing a game every week in order to make a living- but Grant did not cheat, lie and back stab while playing football. In Grant's mind playing the game with honor is more important than winning at any cost, especially if that cost is trust in your team mate.
    Now, I'm not saying Grant lived by these rules himself on Survivor, but in his mind, as a pro athlete (and as a pro athlete who valued integrity toward the game and his teammates over winning by using duplicitous means) Rob's actions toward Grant are essentially unforgivable in Grants mind. What's worse, Rob doesn't get this at all- he doesn't understand honor and integrity in playing a game-it's not even on his radar. You don't betray your teammates trust, you don't purposely make them look stupid and you certainly don't so it with a smug smile on your face.
    I'm not saying Grant is some sort of saint but I do believe there is a code of honor some athletes do live by and Rob just doesn't comprehend that.
    Anyhow, Rob did say he wasn't there to make friends, so why is he so obsessed with Grant not wanting to be his friend? Move on, Rob. Not everyone has to like you.
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  2. #402
    Wild thang Rattus's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Now, I'm not saying Grant lived by these rules himself on Survivor, but in his mind, as a pro athlete (and as a pro athlete who valued integrity toward the game and his teammates over winning by using duplicitous means) Rob's actions toward Grant are essentially unforgivable in Grants mind.
    Yeah, athletes and integrity are two things that definitely belong together .
    All I wanted was a 45, a stinking 45 - the record or the gun. I'd even settle for the damn malt liquor. - Al Bundy.

  3. #403
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by redsox girl View Post
    Rob is terribly mistaken if he believes Grant would be the one person to understand "it's a game." Yes, Grant is an athlete who spent years playing a game every week in order to make a living- but Grant did not cheat, lie and back stab while playing football. In Grant's mind playing the game with honor is more important than winning at any cost, especially if that cost is trust in your team mate.
    Now, I'm not saying Grant lived by these rules himself on Survivor, but in his mind, as a pro athlete (and as a pro athlete who valued integrity toward the game and his teammates over winning by using duplicitous means) Rob's actions toward Grant are essentially unforgivable in Grants mind. What's worse, Rob doesn't get this at all- he doesn't understand honor and integrity in playing a game-it's not even on his radar. You don't betray your teammates trust, you don't purposely make them look stupid and you certainly don't so it with a smug smile on your face.
    I'm not saying Grant is some sort of saint but I do believe there is a code of honor some athletes do live by and Rob just doesn't comprehend that.
    Anyhow, Rob did say he wasn't there to make friends, so why is he so obsessed with Grant not wanting to be his friend? Move on, Rob. Not everyone has to like you.
    I assume this is only your opinion of what is in Grant's mind, which you're entitled to. As yet, Grant has not spoken, so nobody really knows his reasoning, it's all speculation. I am also quite sure that there are some professional athletes, both football players and in other sports, who don't "understand honor and integrity in playing a game", as you put it, just as there are some that do. And it's quite a stretch to compare playing Survivor, where cheating/lying is allowed, with playing football, where it isn't, or to assume that Rob doesn't understand honor and integrity in playing any game other than that of Survivor, where it's not required. When we hear Rob's golfing buddies complaining of him cheating, I think your argument will hold more credence.

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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by jadewarlock View Post
    Sorry, I should've explained myself better - this case he was dense, as in thinking deep enough - to realize that Phillip was acting good at crazy and respected the game play.

    The few times I saw him truly dense were revealing the HII to four potential (three active - one RI) players, and then frittering away said idol on another player who didn't need it. If he had played smarter, he'd lasted a teensy bit longer and may not have had to play the RI challenge that lead to his ouster.

    I am one of the oddballs who also liked Phillip. He had some huge issues sure (I still think the crazy - racist allegory is a bit too much), but he also was quite funny. I DO think however that the producers made him wear his buff as a loincloth when he was in his pink britches and probably led him to the shorts. If they did, it's the ONLY time I didn't mind them butting into the game. In fact, I'd rather them butt in instead of seeing outlines of things that you shouldn't except in the bedroom.
    what I liked on the finale was Phillip admiting he was wrong in regardss to the crazy/racial slur blow up. He didn't make excuses for his behavior- he simply said " I was wrong." Usually when people apologize they throw in a `but I wouldn't have done this or that if..." Phillip didn't do that. He took full responsibility.

    Well, I guess that makes three of us who admit to being oddballs
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  5. #405
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    I assume this is only your opinion of what is in Grant's mind, which you're entitled to. As yet, Grant has not spoken, so nobody really knows his reasoning, it's all speculation. I am also quite sure that there are some professional athletes, both football players and in other sports, who don't "understand honor and integrity in playing a game", as you put it, just as there are some that do. And it's quite a stretch to compare playing Survivor, where cheating/lying is allowed, with playing football, where it isn't, or to assume that Rob doesn't understand honor and integrity in playing any game other than that of Survivor, where it's not required.
    I didn't make myself clear, I apologize. Following sports closely I know Grant is one of those players who views integrity as paramount to the game. In this day and age of steroids and cheating and off field antics we have a plethora of pro athletes who don't follow that mind set. Grant isn't one of those players, however.
    I work in minor league baseball and my brother was a minor league pitcher and so I can say with absolute certainty, for some players there is a line of behavior you do not cross-and making a teammate look like an idiot is one of those lines you do not cross.
    I certainly cannot say for certain this is what Grant is thinking, I was simply making the point it could be a possibility, given his outlook as a professional and my understanding of how some athletes view game play.
    " I'm a Republican. I only seem liberal because I believe hurricanes are caused by high barometric pressure, not gay marriage."- Will Macavoy The Newsroom

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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattus View Post
    Yeah, athletes and integrity are two things that definitely belong together .
    While that's one of those easy to make jokes based in some truth, it's a bit unfair. I have close ties to pro sports. My brother was a minor league pitcher and I work as a free lance writer for minor league baseball. I can assure you some professional athletes play with integrety and honor, even in this day and age. My brother was one such athlete and I will always admire him for that.
    " I'm a Republican. I only seem liberal because I believe hurricanes are caused by high barometric pressure, not gay marriage."- Will Macavoy The Newsroom

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    FORT Fanatic Oceansands's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Has no one noticed the tribe Rob was hooked up with???? Seems strange to me all were immature gullible (mostly) air heads, well, Philip was more of a nut than air head. All the women in his tribe were pretty clueless. It's almost as if CBS wanted a Rob win and the only way to get it was pair him with clueless (darn dumb too) bunch of people. Rob was given the chance three times before and wasn't all that great at the game....maybe because he was with more intelligent players. It figures if he gets enough chances he would eventually win, especially with the group he was given!!! It just starts getting boring after about the second time around no matter who it is.

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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Hmmm, in Rob's first season he lost to his future wife. That says he was pretty darn good at the game from the get go.

  9. #409
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceansands View Post
    Has no one noticed the tribe Rob was hooked up with???? Seems strange to me all were immature gullible (mostly) air heads, well, Philip was more of a nut than air head. All the women in his tribe were pretty clueless. It's almost as if CBS wanted a Rob win and the only way to get it was pair him with clueless (darn dumb too) bunch of people. Rob was given the chance three times before and wasn't all that great at the game....maybe because he was with more intelligent players. It figures if he gets enough chances he would eventually win, especially with the group he was given!!! It just starts getting boring after about the second time around no matter who it is.
    I think you'd find a lot of people, including Jeff, who'd strongly disagree with this statement, particular on All Stars, where he was playing with supposedly the best players in the game up until that point and came within one vote of winning. Closer than Russell ever got. Maybe you should watch it.

    The tribes were assigned to Rob/Russell by a random pull of buffs. Are you suggesting it was fixed?

  10. #410
    FORT Fogey KashatheDiva's Avatar
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    Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Scarlet View Post
    Everyone, including the jury, seems to think that Natalie was young, naive, & had no game whatsoever. I saw her a little different.
    Here we had a very young girl, barely out of school, playing a physically mentally & socially difficult game against people much older, wiser & more experienced in life & relationships. In many ways she was out of her league.
    The ultimate goal is to win the $$$, but in order to do that you have to reach an important secondary goal: Get to the final tribal council.
    Instead of just being cannon fodder she made a day one alliance with the most experienced & competent tribemate. Rob promised to get her there if she stuck to their alliance. That was her goal - get to the end, & he offered it to her.
    How many other contestants were able to do that? Certainly not the high & mighty jury members. Young & inexperienced as she was, she reached her goal & Rob got her there, just like he promised. Her strategy worked just fine, & she won an immunity or two on the way.
    I wish she would have stressed this at final tribal council instead of being so passive. She used her wits, that's a plus.

    Don't get the idea I would have rather seen Natalie win than Rob. No way. I just would have liked to see her get credit for some gameplay.

    ITA.
    And she came away with 2nd place $$, not bad for a 19 y.o. Not the million, but nothing to sneeze at. IDK--I think we lose track of how 19 is still very much a child!! Good for Natalie.
    A dr. asked me: Does anyone in your family suffer from mental illness? My answer: No they all enjoy it immensely.

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