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Thread: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #101
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    I'm not sure that Matt was completely unaware that Survivor players often lie, cheat, betray etc. to do whatever they can to win, unless he's never seen the game. He may simply have wanted to prove that you don't have to be a scoundrel to do well in the game and, unfortunately, found out how difficult it is to do that. I haven't seen every single episode, so I don't want to make any grand statements about Matt's decency or lack thereof, but the fact that his emphasis on his faith may be annoying to some people--and I'm not one who necessarily enjoys people who constantly cite their religious beliefs either--doesn't mean it's insincere or that he's stupid. He may literally have believed that if he tried to live according to his principles, perhaps people would respond to that, even with the cutthroat nature of Survivor. Unfortunately, he landed on Rob's team, and since Rob's game involves completely situational ethics, and Matt was, for a number of reasons, a threat to Rob's game, Rob orchestrated his ouster. Rob may be a completely different person outside the game, but inside it, he isn't trustworthy, because his ultimate purpose is to win, period. Some people find that admirable. Others don't. But I don't think even Rob would deny that's his goal--and that whatever alliances he might form would necessarily be secondary to that. If I were playing Survivor with Rob, the very last thing I would ever do is trust him completely, no matter how he behaved toward me. Of course, I also have zero interest in actually playing Survivor, so there's not much chance of that happening anyway.

    Some people are okay with the whole "it's just a game" mentality and others aren't. I suspect Rob falls into the former camp and Matt into the latter. Honestly, I've often wished that there was some other way to refer to competitions like Survivor other than "game," because aside from the rules in the immunity competitions and some very basic guidelines--like don't do deliberate physical damage to one another outside the competitions--there really aren't any rules. Realistically games--whether they be Monopoly or baseball or hide and seek--have rules. You can't just do anything you can think of to win. If you do, you're necessarily going to be reprimanded and/or disqualified.

  2. #102
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ButterflyFaery View Post
    well I think if he lives through the RI again and wins and IF he gets to come back...Rob better watch his back....and truthfully at this point considering what the tribe has put him through I think he deserves another chance wiht at least 1 week of immunity whether he wins or loses his next challenge IMO I truly believe he has earned the right to return
    Just curious, but what has Matt's tribe "put him through" that is any different than hosts of other blindsides we've seen on this show? He made some mistakes, he should have kept his trap shut about possibly defecting, and he got voted out as a result. I don't think he's had it the worst, or deserves as a result to come back in again and with a week's immunity, no less. He's a nice, good guy who as he said isn't cut out for playing this game. Despite this and his heroic efforts to win at RI, I don't think Matt deserves special treatment at all.

  3. #103
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    In one sense Matt's tribe did him a big favor by sending him to Redemption Island, he doesn't have to spend any time with Philip.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  4. #104
    FORT Fan Sk8Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    Matt = nice kid, dumb Survivor. If he wins this game by coming back in I will be supremely irritated. He gets voted out early, wins a bunch of duels, comes back into the game for one vote and then gets voted out again for basically doing what he did the first time around. He should have stuck with his original plan to align himself with Andrea, take out Omatepe eventually, and be quiet and sneaky about it. What does he do? Immediately spills everything to the one person who orchestrated his first vote out AND throws Andrea under the bus at the same time. So he spends all this time at RI where he doesn't have to negotiate tribal dynamics and backstab anyone, he doesn't make any enemies really (particularly not on the Zapatera tribe) and he just has to win a few more duels and he's back in it again. Ugh.

    Being voted out TWICE should mean you're gone. I hope whoever goes next will win the duel, frankly. Nice kid, but not right for this game and I'm tired of him.
    Just watched the episode, and I have to agree with all of this.

  5. #105
    FORT Fogey KeepItReal's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    If Matt should survive this next run on RI when would they insert him back into the game? Thing is, the guy has spent so much time on RI that should he come back he would likely make the jury, which means that much of his info that he will base picking the winner upon will be second hand. RI has really kept him out of the game and out of the loop for far too long making part of his decision guesswork. Does he really truly understand all that led him back to RI? He will get bits and pieces of the story from those who join him there, but the RI angle only leaves him to outlast the other survivors. The outwit and outplay will not factor in with him.

    I want to like the guy, heck, for some reason I do, but he really pushed me to the limit last week. When he comes back I hope he understands what mistakes he made this go around, and how he nearly sank Andrea in the process.
    "Worrying does not take away tomorrow's troubles, it takes away today's peace".

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  6. #106
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    But I have never liked him. His religious ramblings queered the deal for me.

  7. #107
    *it's crazy* rfromp's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    This is my opinion. Being a good Christian doesn't have to mean being a doormat for those who aren't. There's nothing wrong with keeping things to yourself and having a strategy and playing a proper game. Is a Christian basketball player who makes a feint a cheat? A Christian hockey player who dekes his opponent guilty of deceit? A Christian boxer performing a rope-a-dope a con artist? Nope.

  8. #108
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    I do feel sorry for Matt, he signed up for Survivor completely oblivious that his moral and religious convictions would need to be compromised in order to succeed. However, IMO that doesn't make him deserving of anything.
    If that were true, then Matt has never watched the show. Others have tried the "moral, Christian way" and were eliminated while people, unafraid of lying, conning, maniputlating, etc have gone far in the show.
    This is not the game for Matt.
    A lot of people, myself included, can't play poker or Survival because everything shows on our faces.
    Rob always looks like a happy boy having a good time. Russell always looks like a mean, devious guy who's out to get you.
    Different projected personalities but they never vary from it....part of the secret of winning.

  9. #109
    Resident "tyrant" JavaJo's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by rfromp View Post
    This is my opinion. Being a good Christian doesn't have to mean being a doormat for those who aren't. There's nothing wrong with keeping things to yourself and having a strategy and playing a proper game. Is a Christian basketball player who makes a feint a cheat? A Christian hockey player who dekes his opponent guilty of deceit? A Christian boxer performing a rope-a-dope a con artist? Nope.
    I agree with this. Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean you can't have game. Even playing Monopoly, you have to be cutthroat. And since this isn't real life, he could give himself a little leeway. That doesn't mean he would have to lie and cheat, but if he were really thinking, he could word things a certain way that 'implied' something without outright lying. I know this because my 8 year old is a master of this technique.. He doesn't lie but he doesn't always tell the whole story, either.

    A lot of people, myself included, can't play poker or Survival because everything shows on our faces.
    My husband says I would be great at Survivor because I have a great poker face. It's the swimming factor that would do me in...lol
    I hate when the cops throw me in the back of the squad car ....like they didnít hear me call shotgun.
    Boy (n) : Noise with dirt on it.

  10. #110
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6 Show Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    If that were true, then Matt has never watched the show. Others have tried the "moral, Christian way" and were eliminated while people, unafraid of lying, conning, maniputlating, etc have gone far in the show.
    This is not the game for Matt.
    A lot of people, myself included, can't play poker or Survival because everything shows on our faces.
    Rob always looks like a happy boy having a good time. Russell always looks like a mean, devious guy who's out to get you.
    Different projected personalities but they never vary from it....part of the secret of winning.
    I don't know whether he watched the show or not, but it seemed like his interpretation of "religious morality" meant allowing what he believed his god would want him to do to dictate the decisions he made on Survivor. If anyone has succeeded by playing a mostly "moral" game, it's usually because their tribe dominated the challenges, or they were able to fly under the radar the whole time and avoid making strategic decisions. For this to work,
    you probably also need to be playing with predominantly like minded people who will immediately vote out the more "unscrupulous" players first (not likely to happen anymore, and makes for a boring season). However, in Matt's case, as soon as he re-entered the game at the point he did and became the swing vote, his fate was sealed as someone who would be forced to engage in some degree of manipulation and subterfuge in order to succeed, which he apparently wasn't willing to do.

    ITA with your descriptions of Rob and Russell. It's why for me, Rob's brand of deviousness is far more palatable, and enjoyable to watch, than Russell's.

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