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Thread: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

  1. #221
    FORT Fan JordynRoses's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    but it's not Survivor as we have known it.
    That is precisely why it doesn't matter if Matt wins this season of Survivor. The whole Redemption Island theme is NOT "Survivor as we have known it".

    This Season of Survivor is different than those in the past and therefore if Matt wins, he still has won fairly because he won based upon the unique scenario and dynamics of this season.
    To compare this season to Season 1 and say that Matt has to win the same way Richard Hatch did is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, apples and oranges are both fruits but that's where the similarity ends.

    IF Matt wins, I for one think he will have deserved it.
    He will have redeemed himself through his individual victories and therefore is eligible to continue in the game.

    Is the concept of redemption "fair" in the game of Survivor? For this season it is, because that concept is like the "wild card". IF Matt plays the wild card well, then he still can win fair and square.

  2. #222
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by JordynRoses View Post
    That is precisely why it doesn't matter if Matt wins this season of Survivor. The whole Redemption Island theme is NOT "Survivor as we have known it".

    This Season of Survivor is different than those in the past and therefore if Matt wins, he still has won fairly because he won based upon the unique scenario and dynamics of this season.
    To compare this season to Season 1 and say that Matt has to win the same way Richard Hatch did is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, apples and oranges are both fruits but that's where the similarity ends.

    IF Matt wins, I for one think he will have deserved it.
    He will have redeemed himself through his individual victories and therefore is eligible to continue in the game.

    Is the concept of redemption "fair" in the game of Survivor? For this season it is, because that concept is like the "wild card". IF Matt plays the wild card well, then he still can win fair and square.
    Of course Matt would be winning "fairly", as he is playing within the rules of this particular season. That wasn't my point. It's that in this incarnation of the game, adding this one element, RI, has provided a way to win by bypassing almost every other element of the game that made it uniquely Survivor, not just during the first season, but all 20 seasons that followed. Except this one. If Matt wins this way, then what happened in all but 5-10 minutes of footage we've been watching each week on our TV screens has been totally pointless. I seriously doubt this is the type of game the producers had in mind when they developed the concept. And for those of us who have enjoyed Survivor specifically for the strategy and group dynamics elements, this new version is a huge disappointment.
    Last edited by ironcat; 04-24-2011 at 05:11 PM.

  3. #223
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    ^^^^ Well said, ironcat.

  4. #224
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by shoepie View Post
    ^^^^ Well said, ironcat.
    Yes, exactly. This season is indeed different, but to me, if Matt were to win, I would almost want an (*) beside his name when they list the winners!!

  5. #225
    FORT Fan JordynRoses's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    Of course Matt would be winning "fairly", as he is playing within the rules of this particular season. That wasn't my point. It's that in this incarnation of the game, adding this one element, RI, has provided a way to win by bypassing almost every other element of the game that made it uniquely Survivor, not just during the first season, but all 20 seasons that followed. Except this one. If Matt wins this way, then what happened in all but 5-10 minutes of footage we've been watching each week on our TV screens has been totally pointless. I seriously doubt this is the type of game the producers had in mind when they developed the concept. And for those of us who have enjoyed Survivor specifically for the strategy and group dynamics elements, this new version is a huge disappointment.

    I see your point but I beg to differ that this season will be a disappointment if Matt wins.
    In how many seasons haven't we seen the person who "flew under the radar" win the game??? Were they that smart that they "outwitted and outplayed" all the others??? Not necessarily.
    Take for example, if Natalie on this season wins, do you think that she outplayed and outwitted everybody else? Or would she merely get to the end riding on Rob's coat-tails? What has she done to get as far as she has in this game?
    She has done much LESS in this season than Matt has done and yet she may end up winning because she...ummmm... did ...ummmm.... what????

    At THIS stage of THIS season of Survivor, Matt has done more playing the game to SURVIVE than either Natalie or Ashley has done.

    And BTW, we still get to see all the strategy and the group dynamics elements.
    It was VERY entertaining to watch Phil this past week.
    And it very entertaining to watch the Robfather scheme and plot.
    And it is very entertaining to see the eye candy as is par for the course on Survivor
    And it is always entertaining to watch Jeff especially at Tribal Council.


    So if it comes between Matt and Natalie and Ashley for the win this season, Matt MORE than deserves to win.

    Lots of great players got eliminated early on in other seasons and weaker players won.
    BUT that's what makes each season great!

  6. #226
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    ICAM. Matt winning would severely compromise the integrity of the game, because it reduces the many, often conflicting, components of it to 2 simple ones; winning challenges and being a pleasant person. Succeeding at those may be an admirable achievement, but it's not Survivor as we have known it. I can't imagine any true, old school, "purist" fans of the show being happy about this prospect.

    I also wonder if Matt wasn't as "cute" as he is, if he would have as many viewers rooting for him to win.
    I don't think Matt's that cute. Yeah, he's pretty to look at, but I don't care if eye candy wins. My eye candy was David and he was given the boot I like Matt, and have enjoyed seeing him hang in there in the RI challenges. I'm glad RI didn't go as I thought, where whoever got voted out won, then would get defeated the next time. I did enjoy the twist, but don't like that it's still going on, and hope it isn't back next season. Would I mind if Matt won? Honestly, no. I'd rather see him win than Natalie, Ralph, Phillip, or Ashley. To me, if we're basing this on game play, only Rob deserves to win. I don't feel like anyone left in his original tribe has done anything but follow his lead. As for the remaining tribe, they haven't done anything to prove winner worthy either. However, I can't remember the last time the person who actually deserved the win won. I'd much rather see Matt than the two mindless girls that are rumored to also be in the final 3.

  7. #227
    FORT Fogey MamaAmyG's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    The addition of RI is no different than the addition of HIIs. The idols give players a chance to stay in the game when they otherwise would have been voted out. RI gives players a chance to stay in the game after they've been voted out. Both elements are ways of negating the majority vote. TPTB are looking for ways to keep the game fresh, besides just visiting new locations. They're giving us something new to think about and talk about, and we're doing just that. If the winner of this season spent time on RI, how much better for the show's buzz! Even when the cast is boring and the votes are predictable, we still have this new element to wonder about.
    _(Moo!)

  8. #228
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by JordynRoses View Post
    I see your point but I beg to differ that this season will be a disappointment if Matt wins.
    In how many seasons haven't we seen the person who "flew under the radar" win the game??? Were they that smart that they "outwitted and outplayed" all the others??? Not necessarily.
    Take for example, if Natalie on this season wins, do you think that she outplayed and outwitted everybody else? Or would she merely get to the end riding on Rob's coat-tails? What has she done to get as far as she has in this game?
    She has done much LESS in this season than Matt has done and yet she may end up winning because she...ummmm... did ...ummmm.... what????

    At THIS stage of THIS season of Survivor, Matt has done more playing the game to SURVIVE than either Natalie or Ashley has done.

    And BTW, we still get to see all the strategy and the group dynamics elements.
    It was VERY entertaining to watch Phil this past week.
    And it very entertaining to watch the Robfather scheme and plot.
    And it is very entertaining to see the eye candy as is par for the course on Survivor
    And it is always entertaining to watch Jeff especially at Tribal Council.


    So if it comes between Matt and Natalie and Ashley for the win this season, Matt MORE than deserves to win.

    Lots of great players got eliminated early on in other seasons and weaker players won.
    BUT that's what makes each season great!
    I only said the season would be a disappointment to some of us; I realize that other people would be OK with Matt winning w/o having to actually spend/survive more than a few days total as part of a tribe, and some people are actively rooting for him to win. So obviously they won't be disappointed. And I can, and do, still find the episodes entertaining, but feel disappointed in the fact that strategy, even an "under the radar strategy", which is a valid one and still requires personal interraction with other players, may be of absolutely no consequence in determining the winner this time.

    Regarding Matt being more "deserving" than, say, Natalie or Ashley, we are hypothesizing all this based on the assumption that the girls will have utilized no end game to get them to F3, which we still don't know. Maybe they will or maybe they won't. But however they get there, if they do, it will still be based on making certain strategic decisions to align with the right people to go to the end with. To me, that's more deserving than someone who has only been able to survive one or maybe two tribal councils without benefit of immunity, which we are hypothesizing will be the case with Matt if he makes it to F3. Even with the introduction of the HII, it does not afford someone that kind of luxury.

    Of course, there's always the possibility that Matt will re-enter the game at F5, and actively work to form his own alliance to take Rob down, in which case I would find him a more worthy winner. However, my speculation has all been based on the assumption that he will be as clueless and incompetent strategically in his third chance as he was in his second. We shall see.
    Last edited by ironcat; 04-25-2011 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #229
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    This is my viewpoint from the POV if matt wins - he will be the first to have really won by the three rules since Hatch.

    He's outplayed many people to stay alive on RI

    He's outlasted many people so far, and if he wins, he will have outlasted all.

    Outwitted - he's weak on it so far; however, if he makes the final three, he can say "I've had to outwit my own mind."

    His speech could include: "I lived on RI - alone - for a majority of the season (currently 25 days), and I was voted out twice yet fought and won to continue my quest for the million.

    "To the Zapatera, I was the only person to shake hands with you when you won the challenges. While that cost me a regular spot in this game and I've had to fight on RI to stay alive, I did respect each of you and would've continued to do so had I stayed longer post merge."

    Given that there are going to be a lot of Zapatera jurors on that jury, if he plays up the fact he did respect them and their gameplay, admitting he couldn't see a lot of the post-merge stuff, he has a very good shot at winning this game.

    The thing I will wonder honestly is - if he wins, if Russell will try and say that this game can't be won unless you're a social butterfly. Let's face it, IF Matt wins, he will win by sheer force and strategy (game wise mostly), NOT the social aspect.

    (BTW, I'm kinda hoping Phillip ends up winning out of the current tribal members, not so much Rob because he's starting to get a Russell Complex, and that can be his downfall).

  10. #230
    FORT Fogey march's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor 22 (speculation/spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by jadewarlock View Post
    Given that there are going to be a lot of Zapatera jurors on that jury, if he plays up the fact he did respect them and their gameplay, admitting he couldn't see a lot of the post-merge stuff, he has a very good shot at winning this game.
    That and Matt is the only one who is actually getting to know any of the Zaps since Rob won't allow any of his tribe talk to them that could help him gets votes from the Zaps on the jury. He is spending that all important one on one time with them on RI.

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