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Thread: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

  1. #21
    FORT Fanatic CuckoosNest's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by ActMax;3905675;
    Well did I call it or did I call it? Should I give a Russell esque rant about how awesome of a predictor I am????? Just kidding.
    No no... your rant would be Russell-esque if you got it completely WRONG and then raged on and on about how RIGHT you really were.
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  2. #22
    FORT Fan ActMax's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    No doubt, or said, well if they just would alter the rules by XYZ then I would win, because I say so. Russell was looking pretty ridiculous at the reunion show with his constant, I'm the best ever, just because I can't win doesn't mean I'm not the best in my mind.

  3. #23
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by ActMax;3905719;
    No doubt, or said, well if they just would alter the rules by XYZ then I would win, because I say so. Russell was looking pretty ridiculous at the reunion show with his constant, I'm the best ever, just because I can't win doesn't mean I'm not the best in my mind.
    Well, here's the thing, people believe he's right!

    He doesn't get it: The ability to read and understand human nature and to act upon that information in the correct psychological fashion is the most important (and most overlooked and undervalued) component of the game. Viewers and players dismiss it as inferior `gameplay' and yet time and again the majority of winners have done well in this area of the game.Everytime someone says ` Well, what a suprise the jury is bitter again' I want to reply "Of course they're bitter, they are human beings!" So, as a player you go into the game always, always ,always remembering that human emotions, not cold emotionless objectivity, guide people's decison making skills, whether you agree with it or not. You use it to your advantage, rather than whining about it. You don't spit on it and mock it and look down upon it because you are not suddenly going to change a million years of human evolution. Some of the jurors mentioned that they accept that lying and backstabbing are part of the game, however there is a line you don't cross. Russell not onlyc rossed that line he jumped upa nd down on it and destroyed it. Anyone with even a modicum of social skills knows you don't cross that line, ever. As to where that line is- to paraphrase a U.S. supreme court Justice " I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I know it when I see it."
    At the end of the day, Russell proved twice why his`brilliant' form of strategy only takes you to a certain point before it fails miserably-the point in which you have to go before a group of human beings (who lived with you 24/7 for a month) and answer for your deeds, fair or not.
    " I have a simple outlook-leave every person I meet with a smile on their face."-Donny

  4. #24
    FORT Fanatic vanillalatte's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    Totally agree with your assessment, redsox girl. I think there's also one thing that people are forgetting. If the All-Stars had gotten a chance to actually watch Russell's season, there's absolutely NO WAY he makes it to the final 3. Had he been in, for example, season 18 instead, he would have had to alter his game-play style completely, because the others would have had the background on him and known exactly how he plays the game.

    As it was, the All Stars were already out playing Survivor 20 when 19 was being aired on TV. Even if they did get to see the first few episodes, they didn't get the full bore of Russell's game until the second half of the season.

    So, Russell did, in fact, get VERY lucky whether he wants to admit it or not. His luck lies in the fact that none of the All Stars had any clue how manipulative he really was until it was too late. If Russell ever gets to play this game again, he would need to adjust his strategy and be much more subtle about the moves he makes. But believe me, his ego is WAY to big to even consider that. He'd go in, play the same exact game, would have an incredibly difficult time rounding up an alliance, and be lucky to make it as far as a merge. I would guess that more likely, he'd be out within the first 3 or 4 boots. After his display of ego-mania last night, if the vote for Player of the Game had been held DURING the finale, I wonder if he still would have won that.

    I'm glad Sandra won. Totally deserved IMHO. They say hind-sight is 20/20, and I think every one of the Heroes would admit that they should have listened to her all along. Sandra's strategy was for more subtle and elegant than Russell's, and we all know that Parvati just kept winning immunities to save herself, so in the end, the right person won.

  5. #25
    FORT Fan ActMax's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    I agree, Russell would either go pretty quick, UNLESS the others were smart enough to take him to the finals, which would be the best strategic move. No one will ever like or want to vote for Russell. Russell will always be the best person to take to the finals.

    As for Sandra deserving to win, I dont really agree. I think she won because she was the least offensive. I think Parvati played a much stronger both physical and strategic game (playing 2 idols) and was much more deserving. Sandra got it for the same reason, Russell hasn't won. Bitter jury picking the person they "like" the most.

    I do agree with Russell to the point that a good jury should take SOME consideration into game play. (Coach did appear to do this) Merely voting on who offended you the least is chicken &%#$ IMO. And there hasn't been a jury yet that really doesn't vote that way.

  6. #26
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by ActMax;3905857;
    I agree, Russell would either go pretty quick, UNLESS the others were smart enough to take him to the finals, which would be the best strategic move. No one will ever like or want to vote for Russell. Russell will always be the best person to take to the finals.

    As for Sandra deserving to win, I dont really agree. I think she won because she was the least offensive. I think Parvati played a much stronger both physical and strategic game (playing 2 idols) and was much more deserving. Sandra got it for the same reason, Russell hasn't won. Bitter jury picking the person they "like" the most.

    I do agree with Russell to the point that a good jury should take SOME consideration into game play. (Coach did appear to do this) Merely voting on who offended you the least is chicken &%#$ IMO. And there hasn't been a jury yet that really doesn't vote that way.
    I believe the jury does take good game play into consideration. It's a mix of many things, but if all you are capable of doing is screwing people over w/o exhibiting any type of humanity then you are going to lose. Part of being a great player is to accept this and run with it whether you agree with it or not.
    But, we viewers become bitter as wel,l when our favorites don't win. We minimize the winenrs abilities and castigate the jury in a fashion that lacks objectivity. I've done it, we all do it to an extent. Trust me, had Russell won, I would have thought them all to be morons. That's my emotional response.

    This proves that the game of Survivor is more psychological than fact driven. It's like comparing psychology to math. You can strategize and draw up a war plan all you want, with all sorts of concrerte cold objectives, but if you minimize the emotional part, you lose. Walking that fine line between good strategisit and complete irredeemable a## takes someone who not understands how people think but just importantly how they feel. It takes soemone who, even if they have a HUGE EGO, knows to reign it in so that the end goal is accomplished.
    " I have a simple outlook-leave every person I meet with a smile on their face."-Donny

  7. #27
    Helplessly Hoping AsIs's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    It's funny. Parvarti wanted to get rid of Sandra on Final Jury. It was Russells instance of keeping her. Parvarti wasn't going to complain too much since Russell initially wanted to boot her.

    I think if it had been Jerri in Sandra's place Parvarti would have won easily. It seemed from the questions at tribal that most of the cast offs respected her game. At least two of the five people who voted for Sandra praised Parvarti's game play. Jerri was just a lump. She was total coat tails. And I don't think a all star jury will award coat tails unless they detest the options. Other than one or two women, that wasn't the case with Parvarti. So had Russell listened to Parvarti and kept Jerri, Parvarti would have probably won.

    I've said it in other places, but Sandra won because she told them to boot Russell and they didn't. So they respected her and she earned it. Sandra deserved to win, but I don't think she is the best player ever. I would give that to Parvarti.
    "How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friend. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame... for one person. In the dark. Where no one will ever know or see." - Sebastion, Babylon 5

  8. #28
    FORT Fan ActMax's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    I think you would definitely have to consider Parvati as one of, if not THE best player ever. And I think hands down best female ever. Great in challenges, great in strategic thinking, great at getting rid of people and getting what she wants without being too offensive and even charming in many respects, really great at every aspect of the game. I think Sandra is a very good player all things considered, but I agree I don't think she is the best, maybe top 5 just because of having 2 titles. But I do think Sandra had a LOT of luck on her side both times, and she was definitely an under the radar player, which is not necessarily a knock. Playing under the radar is actually one of the best strategies you can have if you can pull it off, at least in this game. Under the radar means you don't offend anyone, you don't get voted out, you don't appear to be a threat etc.

  9. #29
    FORT Fanatic CuckoosNest's Avatar
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    Quote Originally Posted by ActMax;3906495;
    I think you would definitely have to consider Parvati as one of, if not THE best player ever. And I think hands down best female ever. Great in challenges, great in strategic thinking, great at getting rid of people and getting what she wants without being too offensive and even charming in many respects, really great at every aspect of the game. I think Sandra is a very good player all things considered, but I agree I don't think she is the best, maybe top 5 just because of having 2 titles. But I do think Sandra had a LOT of luck on her side both times, and she was definitely an under the radar player, which is not necessarily a knock. Playing under the radar is actually one of the best strategies you can have if you can pull it off, at least in this game. Under the radar means you don't offend anyone, you don't get voted out, you don't appear to be a threat etc.
    You have an excellent point here. The thing is the "best player" of Survivor has a really hard time being the official best player ever. People who are really good at this and shine are labeled as targets, and rightly so. Parvati has become one of these... everyone knows how clever and strong she is, so she immediately comes under scrutiny. I give her tons of credit for making it to the end this past season. Her only flaw was not recognizing how hated Russell would be. Just think: if she had orchestrated him going out in Colby's spot, I think she'd be a million dollars richer.

    To that end, perhaps Sandra is a "better player" given the dynamics of the game. She's one of the best under-the-radar players ever. She knows how to be sneaky and backstab without ever being blatant about it or making the recipient of the stab feeling dissed (if she wants to... when she doesn't like someone, they know it. I give her props for that too, even if the two concepts conflict with each other.)

    Conversely, this is where Russa Hayntz completely fails. His ego has gotten so huge that he can't stomach the fact of one of his victims not knowing where the knife is coming from. Any subtlety that his game had at the beginning of Samoa has been lost in favor of control, control and more control. Boston Rob was completely right: Russell isn't playing to win any longer... he's just playing to be Russell. And that isn't what Survivor is about.
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  10. #30
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    Re: An Opinion - HvV - Sandra Wins!

    In our interviews yesterday with Colby and Jerri and Sandra, Parvati, and Russell, there was a general consensus that Jerri would have won if she'd made it to the end.
    "I miss Darva Conger." - Phonegrrrl

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