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Thread: Good vs. Evil F2?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariner View Post
    If these two are the last two standing, the jury vote is going to come down to who votes for Steph for playing an in your face/majority alliance game despite their personal resentment of her and who votes for Danni for managing to get to the final two from the minority alliance entering the merge or simply because they like her better.
    Not just those reasons. They get to present a speech and answer questions too, assuming they both get to F2. That has an impact. If I had to say which of the 2 I expected to handle themselves better, present better reasons/arguements and deal with any curve balls or unexpected anger the jury might throw at them, it would be Danni. From what we've seen all season, she hasn't been thrown off kilter easily, if at all, despite the pressure. Steph did a "leap before looking" thing for Jamie and Judd's boot when the pressure was on her. They can only prepare so much for the jury, there is a degree of thinking on your feet if/when the totally unexpected comes at them. IMO

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64 View Post
    Not just those reasons. They get to present a speech and answer questions too, assuming they both get to F2. That has an impact. If I had to say which of the 2 I expected to handle themselves better, present better reasons/arguements and deal with any curve balls or unexpected anger the jury might throw at them, it would be Danni. From what we've seen all season, she hasn't been thrown off kilter easily, if at all, despite the pressure. Steph did a "leap before looking" thing for Jamie and Judd's boot when the pressure was on her. They can only prepare so much for the jury, there is a degree of thinking on your feet if/when the totally unexpected comes at them. IMO
    Those are good points Shady. I think you are exactly right about Danni and Steph's relative strength in dealing with the final tribal council. I don't think the questioning or the speeches have any effect on the voting unless a jury member is undecided or one of the finalists says something monumentally stupid to piss someone off.

    I'm only assuming for purposes of this thread that Steph and Danni are the final two because that is the premise of the thread. I almost don't want to see Lydia in front of the jury because I'm afraid they would eat her alive (well I also don't want her there because she doesn't deserve final two for a lot of reasons).

  3. #23
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    I would expect Stephanie to fall apart and create more enemies in the jury during the F2 questioning period. Her style is to be too aggressive and to blame things that happened on other people, rather than accepting responsibility herself. That would not sit well with the jury. The nail in her coffin would be that she's already been on Survivor, and I absolutely cannot believe that fact would not play a role in the jury member's decisions. She's already been there, had her chance, failed, and now she gets to try again (and manages to get all the way to the F2) with the advantage of previous experience? nah...

    I'm not convinced that Danni would knock the F2 question/answer period out of the park, either. She seems reasonably intelligent, but not particularly good at making cogent arguments (something one would have to do to convince the jury of her worthiness). I think her personality would be considerably less grating than Stephanie, though, and that might be all that some fence-sitting jurors need to vote for her.
    Last edited by VinceDee; 12-10-2005 at 09:21 PM.

  4. #24
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    All good points and while I agree that Danni has the better think-on-your feet skills, Steph has been a Survivor juror, not to mention having had the opportunity to directly pick the brains of former Survivor winners and jurors. So ... that perspective may be a benefit and help her keep her cool. However I do think that Danni is exceptional and with her pageant and radio career experience, Danni has had plenty of practice answering tough, unexpected questions and maintaining her composure under pressure.

    I don't think Rafe would "present" as well as either Steph or Danni, and Lydia should just move her mouth while letting someone else do the talking.
    Last edited by echo226; 12-10-2005 at 09:35 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo226 View Post
    I don't think Rafe would "present" as well as either Steph or Danni, and Lydia should just move her mouth while letting someone else do the talking.
    I'd have to disagree about Rafe. I think he would handle himself quite well and knows what he's doing in front of a jury. Like Danni, he has let everyone percieve him in a certain way. I'm not going to underestimate his abilities like his tribemates did since the minute he bumbled his way up the ladder in the first challenge

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64 View Post
    I'd have to disagree about Rafe. I think he would handle himself quite well and knows what he's doing in front of a jury. Like Danni, he has let everyone percieve him in a certain way. I'm not going to underestimate his abilities like his tribemates did since the minute he bumbled his way up the ladder in the first challenge

    I think Rafe will handle himself well enough, but his explanation is more complicated. I'm thinking that Rafe played "the nice guy" and that demeanor won't play as well or bee as believable in front of the jury when they see where he's sitting. The other choice would be to come out of the nice guy closet and confess that he manipulated things and that being the nice guy was his strategy which might not endear him to them either.

    Danni could claim she was just being herself and enjoying the experience. Her obstacle will be to not come off as too polished.

    Steph can claim she is sorry she had to hurt people, but she was just following not-nice Rafe's plan in order to keep her torch lit as long as possible.
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  7. #27
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    In addition to the other clever Danni strategies talked about over the past page or two (many speculated on and not proven, but none of them a big reach--we COULD be imagining it but I don't think we are) I've noticed one other.

    I think she purposefully gives the impression that she's a coattailer, like Lydia, while of course actually steering people. echo226 speaks of how she seems to have won Gary over by seeming to defer to him and then later Rafe over by implying that HE'D won over Gary. I agree that's possibly what happened, although I also think that Rafe is smart enough to know that Gary would still choose Danni over him.

    She's come off as affable to everyone, in a similar way that Lydia has, but she's less overtly and irritatingly syncophantic. In part I think this is because she IS affable--in other words she's the kind of emotionally stable personality this show rarely casts. So its no difficulty for her to sit in a jungle for weeks and not resort to sniping over who has the most rice in their bowl, who got the most rewards, or who's slacking off on the camp duties. Mind you, it's seemed almost impossible for most Survivors to avoid doing this--in part because volatile types are usually cast and in part because it's become part of the Survivor play-book to try and reap your own fortunes by casting someone else down (mind you Danni's probably done that too--but if so it's been subtle). Someone who sits quietly, never starts trouble, picks her moments to speak, doesn't get caught in lies, and rarely lets herself be seen pushing a strategy is SEEN as a coattailer, but of course isn't if she's simply choosing her moments and getting other people to do the heavy lifting for her--as first Gary, and then Rafe, have done for her.

    Actually, she's exactly the type of player I thoght Rafe was a few weeks back. I assumed he was totally the puppetmaster for Steph--as he is--but I also never thought he'd be as obvious or as easily swayed as he's been in the past few boots. Judd probably wasn't the best boot for him, because like Lydia, Judd would have been a wonderful F2 partner. And yet Rafe got easily pushed in line to ditching Judd. And then the following week, the seemingly clearheaded Rafe gets a bug up his butt about Cindy and her car--at least in part because of Danni's posturing, even if she herself didn't seem half as upset about it.

    In other words, Danni has either been about as fortunate as any player in this game's history, or she's been a manipulator of such subtlety as this game's never known before. At the very least, she ain't Lydia--the difference between a REAL coattailer and a trojan one being that the real one is someone's else's patsy, while the trojan one is making patsys out of the people who are assuming they are actually calling the shots.

    Of course, even if this all IS true, it can all fall apart so easily with the last two boots.
    Last edited by Krom; 12-11-2005 at 09:18 AM.

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom View Post
    In other words, Danni has either been about as fortunate as any player in this game's history, or she's been a manipulator of such subtlety as this game's never known before. At the very least, she ain't Lydia--the difference between a REAL coattailer and a trojan one being that the real one is someone's else's patsy, while the trojan one is making patsys out of the people who are assuming they are actually calling the shots.
    If she is the latter - and I think she is - I find it quite remarkable that it took us this long to get a subtle manipulator. Danni may well be in her own way as good as - or even better - a manipulator than the more obvious manipulators Survivor has traditionally featured.

    One more thing. If Danni wins, then it'll be the second straight season where the winner has gone against the usual Survivor playbook.

  9. #29
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    If she is the latter - and I think she is - I find it quite remarkable that it took us this long to get a subtle manipulator. Danni may well be in her own way as good as - or even better - a manipulator than the more obvious manipulators Survivor has traditionally featured.
    I think Danni is an extremely skilled manipulator. Being a pretty girl with all the right assets, I suspect she's fairly familiar with having people fall over themselves to please her. I'd be surprised if she knows what it feels like to not have things go her way.

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