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Thread: Is the Editing going too far this time?

  1. #81
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Alright, this took a while, but here are the challenge standing for every woman to ever compete in Survivor. The fractions by each name represent how many challenges each person won out of how many challenges she competed in. TRC stands for Tribal Reward Challenges. TIC stands for Tribal Immunity Challenges. IRC stands for Individual Reward Challenges. IIC stands for Individual Immunity Challenges. Under each person's name is the percentage data. This gives the more accurate rating of any one person's skill in challenges. TrCH stands for Tribal Challenges. InCh stands for Indivual Challenges. ImCh stands for Immunity Challenges. Total stands for, well, total challenge percentage. I included my thoughts on this at the bottom:

    Borneo
    Sonja Christopher: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/1 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Stacy Stillman: TRC – 1/1 TIC – 1/3 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 50% ImCh: 33% Total: 50%
    Ramona Gray: TRC – 0/2 TIC – 2/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 33% ImCh: 50% Total: 33%
    Gretchen Cordy: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/1
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 0% ImCh: 43% Total: 45%
    Jenna Lewis: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/2 IIC – 0/3
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 0% ImCh: 33% Total: 33%
    Colleen Haskell: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/5 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 0% ImCh: 25% Total: 24%
    Susan Hawk: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 0/8
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 0% ImCh: 21% Total: 21%
    Kelly Wiglesworth: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 1/6 IIC – 4/9
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 33% ImCh: 47% Total: 34%

    Australian Outback
    Debb Eaton: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/1 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Maralyn Hershey: TRC – 2/2 TIC – 1/3 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 60% ImCh: 33% Total: 60%
    Kimmi Kappenberg: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/5 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 56% ImCh: 60% Total: 56%
    Alicia Calaway: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/5 IRC – 0/1 IIC – 0/2
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 0% ImCh: 43% Total: 46%
    Jerri Manthey: TRC – 2/5 TIC – 2/5 IRC – 2/2 IIC – 0/3
    TrCh: 40% InCh: 40% ImCh: 25% Total: 40%
    Amber Brkich: TRC – 2/5 TIC – 2/5 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/5
    TrCh: 40% InCh: 0% ImCh: 20% Total: 21%
    Elisabeth Filarski: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/5 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 0/7
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 0% ImCh: 25% Total: 26%
    Tina Wesson: TRC – 2/5 TIC – 2/5 IRC – 1/6 IIC – 0/8
    TrCh: 40% InCh: 7% ImCh: 15% Total: 21%

    Africa
    Diane Ogden: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/1 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Jessie Camacho: TRC – 0/1 TIC – 0/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Linda Spencer: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 2/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 57% ImCh: 50% Total: 57%
    Lindsey Richter: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 55% ImCh: 50% Total: 55%
    Kelly Goldsmith: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/1 IIC – 0/2
    TrCh: 55% InCh: 0% ImCh: 38% Total: 43%
    Kim Powers: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/5
    TrCh: 55% InCh: 0% ImCh: 27% Total: 30%
    Teresa Cooper: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/5 IIC – 1/6
    TrCh: 55% InCh: 9% ImCh: 33% Total: 32%
    Kim Johnson: TRC – 3/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 2/8
    TrCh: 55% InCh: 14% ImCh: 36% Total: 32%

    Marquesas
    Patricia Jackson: TRC – 0/1 TIC – 0/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Sarah Jones: TRC – 0/2 TIC – 0/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Gina Crews: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 1/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 30% ImCh: 17% Total: 30%
    Zoe Zanidakis: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 5/6 IRC – 0/2 IIC – 0/3
    TrCh: 70% InCh: 0% ImCh: 56% Total: 47%
    Tammy Leitner: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 5/6 IRC – 0/3 IIC – 2/4
    TrCh: 70% InCh: 29% ImCh: 70% Total: 53%
    Kathy Vavrick-O’Brien: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 4/6 IRC – 2/5 IIC – 2/7
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 33% ImCh: 46% Total: 45%
    Neleh Dennis: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 4/6 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 1/8
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 7% ImCh: 36% Total: 29%
    Vecepia Towery: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 2/6 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 2/8
    TrCh: 40% InCh: 14% ImCh: 29% Total: 25%

    Thailand
    Tanya Vance: TRC – 0/1 TIC – 0/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Ghandia Johnson: TRC – 1/3 TIC – 1/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 29% ImCh: 25% Total: 29%
    Stephanie Dill: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 3/5 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 63% ImCh: 60% Total: 63%
    Shii Ann Huang: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 55% ImCh: 43% Total: 55%
    Erin Collins: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/8 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 50% ImCh: 38% Total: 50%
    Penny Ramsey: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/8 IRC – 0/2 IIC – 0/2
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 0% ImCh: 30% Total: 38%
    Helen Glover: TRC – 0/4 TIC – 5/8 IRC - 1/5 IIC – 1/5
    TrCh: 42% InCh: 20% ImCh: 46% Total: 32%
    Jan Gentry: TRC – 0/4 TIC – 5/8 IRC – 0/6 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 42% InCh: 0% ImCh: 36% Total: 21%

    Amazon
    Janet Koth: TRC – 1/1 TIC – 1/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 66% ImCh: 50% Total: 66%
    Joanna Ward: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 2/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 57% ImCh: 50% Total: 57%
    Jeanne Herbert: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 2/5 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 50% ImCh: 40% Total: 50%
    Shawna Mitchell: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 50% ImCh: 50% Total: 50%
    Deena Bennett: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/2 IIC – 1/3
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 20% ImCh: 44% Total: 40%
    Christy Smith: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/3 IIC – 0/5
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 0% ImCh: 27% Total: 33%
    Heidi Strobel: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 60% InCh: 0% ImCh: 25% Total: 30%
    Jenna Morasca: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 4/8
    TrCh: 50% InCh: 33% ImCh: 50% Total: 41%

    Pearl Islands
    Nicole Delma: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/1 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Michelle Tesauro: TRC – 3/4 TIC – 3/5 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 66% ImCh: 60% Total: 66%
    Trish Dunn: TRC – 4/5 TIC – 3/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 64% ImCh: 50% Total: 64%
    Tijuana Bradley: TRC – 1/5 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 0/3 IIC – 0/4
    TrCh: 33% InCh: 0% ImCh: 43% Total: 21%
    Christa Hastie: TRC – 4/5 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 58% InCh: 0% ImCh: 23% Total: 32%
    Darrah Johnson: TRC – 1/5 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 1/5 IIC – 3/7
    TrCh: 33% InCh: 33% ImCh: 43% Total: 33%
    Lillian Morris: TRC – 0/2 TIC – 1/4 IRC – 2/5 IIC – 1/8
    TrCh: 17% InCh: 23% ImCh: 17% Total: 21%
    Sandra Diaz-Twine: TRC – 4/5 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 0/5 IIC – 0/8
    TrCh: 58% InCh: 0% ImCh: 20% Total: 28%

    Vanuatu
    Dolly Neely: TRC – 1/1 TIC – 1/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 66% ImCh: 50% Total: 66%
    Mia Galeotalanza: TRC – 1/1 TIC – 1/3 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 50% ImCh: 33% Total: 50%
    Lisa Keiffer: TRC – 2/4 TIC – 2/6 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 40% ImCh: 33% Total: 40%
    Leann Slaby: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 1/3 IIC – 0/4
    TrCh: 46% InCh: 14% ImCh: 27% Total: 35%
    Ami Cusack: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 1/4 IIC – 2/5
    TrCh: 46% InCh: 33% ImCh: 42% Total: 41%
    Julie Berry: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 4/7 IRC – 1/5 IIC – 1/6
    TrCh: 54% InCh: 18% ImCh: 38% Total: 38%
    Eliza Orlins: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 3/5 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 46% InCh: 27% ImCh: 23% Total: 38%
    Scout Cloud Lee: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 3/7 IRC – 0/5 IIC – 0/7
    TrCh: 46% InCh: 0% ImCh: 21% Total: 24%
    Twila Tanner: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 4/7 IRC – 0/5 IIC – 1/7
    TrCh: 54% InCh: 8% ImCh: 36% Total: 32%

    Palau
    Wanda Shirk: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/0 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    Total: 0%
    Jolanda Jones: TRC – 0/0 TIC – 0/1 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 0%
    Ashlee Ashby: TRC – 1/1 TIC – 0/2 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 33% ImCh: 0% Total: 33%
    Kimberley Mullen: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 0/4 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 29% ImCh: 0% Total: 29%
    Angie Jakusz: TRC – 2/3 TIC – 0/5 IRC – 0/0 IIC – 0/0
    TrCh: 25% ImCh: 0% Total: 25%
    Janu Tornell: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 8/8 IRC – 0/1 IIC – 0/2
    TrCh: 79% InCh: 0% ImCh: 80% Total: 65%
    Stephenie LaGrossa: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 0/8 IRC – 0/2 IIC – 0/3
    TrCh: 21% InCh: 0% ImCh: 0% Total: 16%
    Caryn Groedel: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 8/8 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/5
    TrCh: 79% InCh: 0% ImCh: 62% Total: 48%
    Jennifer Lyon: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 8/8 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/6
    TrCh: 79% InCh: 0% ImCh: 57% Total: 46%
    Katie Gallagher: TRC – 3/6 TIC – 8/8 IRC – 0/4 IIC – 0/7
    TrCh: 79% InCh: 0% ImCh: 53% Total: 44%

    Yes, I know I left off All-Stars, and I apologize. Honestly, this took so much time that adding in All-Star percentages may have killed me.
    I rank all the post-merge women in the following post.
    I think the most accurate representation of a person's challenge strength comes from their Individual Challenge percentage. Those challenges rely on their own skills, and no one else's, so it really shows who was strongest when it came to challenges. You'll notice that, according to individual challenge records, the Palau women weren't that strong, which I think is a fair assessment. I didn't think the total percentages would end up being very accurate regarding a woman's overall challenge strength, but I actually think they end up being fairly accurate after all. It seems that they usually offer a nice ranking of each person in a given season (meaning, it shows that Ami was the best at challenges in Vanuatu, followed by Julie and Eliza), though the overall ranking of everyone according to this total is a bit skewed.

  2. #82
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Remember, these are only the women that made it to the merge.

    Individual Challenges
    1. Jerri Manthey
    2. Kelly Wiglesworth
    2. Kathy Vavrick-O’Brien
    2. Jenna Morasca
    2. Darrah Johnson
    2. Ami Cusack
    7. Tammy Leitner
    8. Eliza Orlins
    9. Lillian Morris
    10. Deena Bennett
    10. Helen Glover
    12. Julie Berry
    13. Kim Johnson
    13. Vecepia Towery
    13. Leann Slaby
    16. Teresa Cooper
    17. Twila Tanner
    18. Neleh Dennis
    18. Tina Wesson
    20. The Rest of the Post-Merge Women (Stephenie)

    Total
    1. Tammy Leitner
    2. Zoe Zanidakis
    3. Alicia Calaway
    4. Kathy Vavrick-O’Brien
    4. Gretchen Cordy
    6. Kelly Goldsmith
    7. Ami Cusack
    7. Jenna Morasca
    9. Jerri Manthey
    9. Deena Bennett
    11. Penny Ramsey
    11. Julie Berry
    11. Eliza Orlins
    14. Leann Slaby
    15. Kelly Wiglesworth
    16. Darrah Johnson
    16. Christy Smith
    16. Jenna Lewis
    19. Helen Glover
    19. Twila Tanner
    19. Christa Hastie
    19. Teresa Cooper
    19. Kim Johnson
    24. Heidi Strobel
    24. Kim Powers
    26. Neleh Dennis
    27. Sandra Diaz-Twine
    28. Elisabeth Filarski
    29. Vecepia Towery
    30. Scout Cloud Lee
    30. Colleen Haskell
    32. Lillian Morris
    32. Susan Hawk
    32. Amber Brkich
    32. Tina Wesson
    32. Jan Gentry
    32. Tijuana Bradley
    38. Stephenie LaGrossa

    Anyway, there are a couple things to notice about each list. First of all, Jerri's reward challenge wins actually made her the best woman to ever compete in individual challenges. Stephenie is one of the many who never won a single individual challenge.
    The second list favors those who had a dominant tribe in challenges, but is still pretty fair when it comes to ranking everyone. Notice who's on the bottom.

    It's official: Stephenie sucks at challenges.

  3. #83
    everything under the sun lopevian's Avatar
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    Damn cable101! That was GREAT! Thanks for all the info.
    "...Mr. Bluebird on my shoulder..."

  4. #84
    Snoozin' on the beach
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    Ok I'm a little confused about the list and jerry. She only won 1 individual reward challenge while a few others won 1. I don't think I am understanding exactly how this list works. Of the RC they participated in against how many of those they won? Is that right?

  5. #85
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    Ok Cable, I compared the numbers I had to yours. I only did Immunity challenges and not Reward. I caught 2 mistakes on mine thanks to your numbers I had marked both Colleen and Kelly with 1 Ind. Immun. ( 1 extra in Kelly's case) when it was a reward challenge.

    I noticed 2 things different in the numbers from yours so I went back and checked on it. You listed Julie as winning 1 Individual Immunity when she won none and you listed Eliza as winning no Indiv. Immunities when she won 1 (Episode 13). I do remember Eliza winning the "race to answer questions challenge puzzle" towards the end of the season.

    I was kind of confused how to list the episode of the double boot on Palua. I thought becasue they had to send someone home I would not list it as a win but it wouldn't change anything as I gave them all 7 TIC wins.

    I don't know about you, but when I was going back and forth checking numbers...between the tribal swaps and the outback twist, it really got confusing remembering who went where and when and tracking from there and doing it for each season! I could never be a numbers cruncher for a living I'm going to try Broadways suggestion of getting my list in here by html if at all possible.

  6. #86
    FORT Fogey
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    My impression of the situation was that Twila was the schemer, Chris had every reason to believe he was a dead man, and the plan was that Eliza was going to be a dead woman, making Scout nothing more than a vote in the plot.

    15 people didn't puke or overheat themselves to the point of being sick. They were prepared and knew what they should and shouldn't be doing. Just like they try and bulk up to be ready for no food, learning how to start a fire and other things.
    There were at least 4 sick people (no doubt more than they didn't show), all of whom had to carry the weight of the others because the others were too weak to pitch in enough. Yes, it can be viewed as them acting stupidly, but for the others it wasn't about not making themselves sick. Nobody's ever been ready for no food. Almost nobody's ever been able to start fire.

    Just to take issue with your Kim J. example...she did win the final immunity challenge (standing on wooden pegs) These sorts of challenges require endurance and a certain kind of strength, and Kim beat two men quite a bit younger than her.
    Lex was seriously sick (to the point where they were monitoring him to eliminate him) and in no shape to compete, while Ethan fell when a cameraman vomited in front of him. Tom summed it up best: "You rode me and Ethan and Lex’s coattails to get where you are."

    Interesting stats, but certainly not conclusive. We could say Bobby Jon sucks at challenges, too... but now that he's on a new team he's winning regularly. If you include All Stars, you get some interesting stats that demonstrate that this is not an unusual phenomenon. For the sake of ease, I'll compare someone I'm sure everyone will be thrilled about with himself.

    Boston Rob: Marquesas
    Team immunity-2 wins, 4 losses
    Team reward -2 wins, 2 losses
    Individual reward-n/a
    Individual immunity-0 wins, 1 loss

    Boston Rob: All Stars
    Team immunity-5 wins, 1 loss
    Team reward-4 wins, 1 second, 2 losses
    Individual reward-2 wins, 3 losses
    Individual immunity-4 wins, 3 losses

    Granted, he was one shy of the merge in Marquesas, but it's clear he went from mediocre in challenges to completely dominant. Why? Not because he changed or got better. But because the game changed. His team changed.
    Last edited by user name; 10-13-2005 at 07:48 PM.

  7. #87
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    I don't deny Scout road coatails at some point in the season. But she didn't get to F3 just by ridinmg coatails. She did have a hand in how far she got. BTY half the cast of Vanuatu rode coatails at one point or another. Most of the women rode Ami's coattails ( some longer than others) and the men of Sarge's allaince rode coatails. They had the numbers to get rid or the guys ( Brady, the 2 John's and what';s his name, the first boot) not in their alliance. Chris rode Twila's coattails for a time after the merge. Heck, she had to spoon feed him what to do. He rode the coatails of all the women when he was the only guy standing. Some people say he had great stratedy to keep his mouth shut and not bring attention to himself while the women went after each other, that he outsmarted all of them. He didn't outsmart them, they outsmarted each other but he was at least smart enough to keep quiet so others could take the target off him and put it on themselves. Scout did alot of that while Dolly, Mia, Lisa and Rory did not. Sometimes its as simple as that to get ahead. Doesn't mean your doing nothing to further yourself

    I do believe it was Scout that was pressing Twila about making the jump from their alliance with Ami. The first time she tried it, Twila backed off because she didn't want the purple rock. Ami and Leann knew something was up but they didn't really catch Scout or Twila with their hand in the cookie jar like they did with Dolly. Twila was the bigger schemer of the 2 after that. At least Scout was smart enough not to get sent packing like Dolly by shooting her mouth off to everyone about flipping. She was also smart enough not to get into the same kind of confrontation that Twila and Mia got into ( which brought about Mia's demise) even though Scout and Eliza didn't like each other and wanted each other gone.

  8. #88
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user name
    Lex was seriously sick (to the point where they were monitoring him to eliminate him) and in no shape to compete, while Ethan fell when a cameraman vomited in front of him. Tom summed it up best: "You rode me and Ethan and Lex’s coattails to get where you are."
    Let's not forget, too, that Kim J. possibly only made the final 3 due to luck yet again, this time being a mistake of the producers screwing up one of the questions in the second to last IC. I'll give Kim J. credit where it's due, but I really don't consider her to be strong or much of a schemer. She had an opportunity to at least make the final 4 because of the alliance she was in, she was nothing more than a vote in their alliance and luck helped play a part in how she got to the end to begin with. JMO, of course. We could also look at Thailand's Jan, who I think is similar to Kim J. in that sense. She wasn't a huge physical liability, but she did get lucky that two boots from her tribe got on nerves (John and Ghandia) and that one person was sick (Tanya), then Sook Jai went on a losing streak and she was promised by Brian and Clay to stick with them and they'd make sure she got 3rd place.

  9. #89
    the sweetest thing snickers's Avatar
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    Then again, what do I know? I couldn't stand Rupert from day one.
    hear hear, i dont think they are making stephenie look that great, to me they are making her look like someone who is very bossy and hard to work with it when it comes to challenges

  10. #90
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user name
    Interesting stats, but certainly not conclusive.
    Oh, absolutely true. One's challenge performance has much to do with the competition, which differs every season. Nevertheless, these statistics are surprisingly accurate, especially when only comparing women of one particular season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    You listed Julie as winning 1 Individual Immunity when she won none and you listed Eliza as winning no Indiv. Immunities when she won 1 (Episode 13).
    I was bound to screw up on Vanuatu, as it was the only season where my memory of it was too weak to really help me out. Oh, and I forgot to mention, I left out the Palau women on the "Totals" list, because they all topped the charts, and we all know that the weren't spectacular at challenges, but, rather, their team was.

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