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Thread: Jeff cashes in his markers tonight

  1. #111
    Scratchin' an itch dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger Bunny
    ...

    My main point in posting was to show amazement at the people saying that Jeff "forced" Janu to quit. Janu would have quit last week if she had known she'd still be on the jury, I don't think she quit this week because Ian put the idea in her head or because Jeff asked what's the difference between quiting and asking to be voted out. Clearly she wanted to quit, if she didn't want to quit she could have let it go to a vote.

    I can accept the opinion that Jeff influenced her decision too much for someone's preference. But to say that he "forced her to quit" is ridiculous, in my opinion.
    Hmmmmmm DB ... it would seem we are carrying on a disagreement in such civility you'd think we were Canadians.

    It would also seem we are not discussing the same thing ... you are expressing amazement that people are saying JP forced Janu to quit, while I am saying JP overstepped his role.

    And it would seem that our reaction to Stephenie could be part of the reason. You are a Stephenie fan and therefore appear to want to see her win the game, on the other hand I am not a Stephenie fan, and I don't want her to win. In the last episode Janus quitting was necessary for Stephenie to continue in the game, so I would expect you to be happy at the turn of events that saw Janu quit. I, on the other hand, wanted Stephenies game to come to an end, and was disappointed that Jeff went farther than he did with his questioning of Janu than he did when Ashlee and Jeff Wilson quit the game.

    It seems to me that JP has become a lot more snarky and aggressive this season, and is playing a much bigger role. I didn't mind when he challenged James, although James called JP a liar on "Live", claiming he only spent a minute tying his skirt; and that his knot was a challenge for Koror, but that was edited out. I didn't mind when he challenged Ibrehem, because Ib seemed to be such a non-factor. But on the latest episode, he went farther in the way he was interrogating Janu.

    Did JP force Janu to quit ... no, I'll agree with you there ... she made the final decision. Even when we chose to let someone else to make decisons for us - that is a choice. I suspect that is part of the message you are trying to convey.


    BTW, I think Tom is likely aware that if its Stephenie and him at F2, he will win $100,000. At this time Coby would vote for Stephenie, Janu and Caryn likely would, and by the end of the game at least one other person would be pissed at Tom.

    And as emjoi said, JPs role in the last ep. interferred with Greggs plan. So it's not just that Janu quit, it's that JP interferred with the game of at least 2 other players.
    Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.- Steven Wright

  2. #112
    FORT Fanatic Danger Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    Hmmmmmm DB ... it would seem we are carrying on a disagreement in such civility you'd think we were Canadians.
    Shhhh, don't tell anyone!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    And it would seem that our reaction to Stephenie could be part of the reason. You are a Stephenie fan and therefore appear to want to see her win the game, on the other hand I am not a Stephenie fan, and I don't want her to win.
    Actually I'm not a Stephenie fan. I know it may appear that way from my latest (unofficial) screen caps but you can't take anything I say in them seriously. I'm going for the joke. I'd pretend to be a Wanda fan if I thought it was funny. I don't want Steph to win, I don't think she's played the game all that well (she has done well in some of the physical challenges) and I think she's made some foolish moves. It's just that none of them have cost her the game yet (other people made bigger goofs). I was rooting for Tom up until this week (when he completely blew it) so I don't really have a favourite right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    It seems to me that JP has become a lot more snarky and aggressive this season, and is playing a much bigger role.
    Ah, now there we may have something. This is the first season I've watched so I really have nothing to compare it to. It seems to me that Jeff nails everybody indiscriminately. For example two weeks ago he asked Janu something like "who isn't pulling their weight in camp?" That, to me, looks like he was painting a big target on Janu. But he's targeted lots of people. And from what I understand these Tribal Councils last for hours, lots of stuff gets discussed we never see. It's Jeff's job to stir up [censored] with his questioning, to get people to rethink their position and their votes. It's part of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    Did JP force Janu to quit ... no, I'll agree with you there ... she made the final decision. Even when we chose to let someone else to make decisions for us - that is a choice. I suspect that is part of the message you are trying to convey.
    Pretty much, there was this uprising of outrage at how Jeff forced Janu to quit when it was clear that Janu wanted to go. She wanted to get voted out the previous week, she thought she was going to get voted out and felt betrayed when she wasn't. She came into this council with the same agenda and fearing that she wouldn't get voted out, again, quit. From published reports it's clear that the only reason she didn't quit the previous week was because she wasn't sure she'd be on the jury. When she found out this week that she would be, she quit.

    My big beef was that some people were making it out like Janu wanted to keep playing and leaving was the furthest thing from her mind until Jeff used his Jedi Mind Tricks and talked her into quiting. Janu wanted to leave and she left. If you want to blame someone for putting the idea out there, blame Ian.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    And as emjoi said, JPs role in the last ep. interfered with Greggs plan. So it's not just that Janu quit, it's that JP interfered with the game of at least 2 other players.
    I see interfering with the game like this as part of Jeff's job (he influences stuff during challenges too). Other's opinions may vary.

  3. #113
    Leo
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    I don't really have a problem with what Jeff did. We don't know what exactly Jeff asks at the TCs, but we do know he asks and prods the contestants a lot more than we see. What he's trying to do there is to get them to say something they shouldn't - in short, try to get any secrets out in the open. Dealing with Jeff is part of the game, as much as, say, dealing with Simon on American Idol.

    What I'm really curious is why Jeff, or the other producers behind the scenes (or, perhaps, both) decided to do this. My personal belief is that they did it for two reasons: one, they really don't like people who quit. I can understand that - it doesn't make for a particularly interesting game, or for good TV either.

    I think the other reason is that TPTB are subtly trying to make the game harder for under-the-radar players like Janu. So far, the challenges seem to be more demanding physically than past seasons. Of course, we never got a chance to see what the effect would be on who got voted out pre-merge because Ulong got utterly annihiliated. But I think the intention there was to take out weaker players who are likely to pursue UTR strategies later on.

    Now we're in the post-merge phase. TPTB see that a player who is the exact opposite of UTR - Stephenie - is in serious trouble. They're limited in what they can do, but Janu offers an opportunity to nudge the game the way they want. They know she's not feeling well. They know she wanted out the last time, but the tribe wouldn't let her. So they set up the TC in such a way that Janu, who was probably leaning a little towards quitting, takes the final plunge. I know it sounds like a bad conspiracy theory, but it's just idle speculation. Take it for what it's worth.

  4. #114
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    I think he overstepped his bounds too and I would imagine that it will make it that much harder for him with an future contestants. Whether Janu quit on her own or JP pushed her to do it, the perception of the average viewer (and future contestant) is that he did push her that way.

    If I were to ever go on survivor (after watching this TC) forget lying or being evasive (something i'd have done up to this point) i'd just stonewall him with every single question he asks me. Standard answer would be "I don't know" "maybe" and "I'm not sure" no matter what. You can't blow my game, put words in my mouth or mess with my head if you get nothing from me is. Makes for very boring TV doesn't it but it would seem to be a good defensive against his questions
    Last edited by Shady64; 04-24-2005 at 09:37 AM.

  5. #115
    FORT Fan deblyn's Avatar
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    I am one of those with the opinion that Janu quit because she wanted to. There was no subterfuge on Jeff's part. Once you read the posted article, it is clear the only reason she never quit before was because she wanted to be on the jury and was afraid if she quit, she couldn't be on it.
    Giving Iberehem immunity changed the strategy of Ulong. Janu quitting changed the strategy this time. Janu quit because she wanted to, all along it was obvious, to me, that she wasn't cut out for this game.
    I don't think JP overstepped his role, it is obvious from the article, he was trying to find out if Janu really wanted to quit.
    As for whether or not Steph would have been voted off, we still don't know for sure. It looked like Tom, Gregg and Ian were going to vote for her, but we don't know, for sure. It is entirely possible Janu may have been gone anyway.
    Last edited by deblyn; 04-24-2005 at 10:19 AM.

  6. #116
    FORT Fanatic Danger Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    I think he overstepped his bounds too and I would imagine that it will make it that much harder for him with an future contestants.
    I'd recommend anyone who thinks Jeff overstepped his bounds watch part 1 of the Janu Survivor Insider on CBS's web site where she discusses it.

  7. #117
    Scratchin' an itch dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    I think he overstepped his bounds too and I would imagine that it will make it that much harder for him with an future contestants. Whether Janu quit on her own or JP pushed her to do it, the perception of the average viewer (and future contestant) is that he did push her that way.

    If I were to ever go on survivor (after watching this TC) forget lying or being evasive (something i'd have done up to this point) i'd just stonewall him with every single question he asks me. Standard answer would be "I don't know" "maybe" and "I'm not sure" no matter what. You can't blow my game, put words in my mouth or mess with my head if you get nothing from me is. Makes for very boring TV doesn't it but it would seem to be a good defensive against his questions
    I agree 100% ... future contestants seeing this episode and knowing that Julie stonewalled JP in TC will lead to the potential of less interesting TCs in future editions of Survivor. So the plan of becoming what contestants perceive as excessively confrontational in TC will lead to the demise of Survivor - at least as we know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danger Bunny
    I'd recommend anyone who thinks Jeff overstepped his bounds watch part 1 of the Janu Survivor Insider on CBS's web site where she discusses it.
    I haven't watched Insider or Live yet, and someone posted an article earlier on this thread that suggested she wanted to be on the jury and wanted to quit. But this thread goes beyond Janu ... hell, (oooops, sorry, I mean heck ) I've been pushing for weeks for Janu to be out of the game ... this is about Jeffs role. In reading what some people say - and I agree with - he crossed the fine line of asking tough questions to the point where he was influencing the game to go in the direction that TPTB (thanks Leo) want it to go. The game can become more about JP than it does about the contestants when he starts controlling TC rather than directing TC.


    BTW DB ... what is a bonde???
    Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.- Steven Wright

  8. #118
    FORT Fanatic Danger Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    In reading what some people say - and I agree with - he crossed the fine line of asking tough questions to the point where he was influencing the game to go in the direction that TPTB (thanks Leo) want it to go.
    I guess we can pretty much leave it at that. You think he did, I don't think he did and I don't see either of us changing the other's mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg
    BTW DB ... what is a bonde???
    Someone with blonde hair. Or am I missing the joke?

  9. #119
    Scratchin' an itch dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger Bunny
    I guess we can pretty much leave it at that. You think he did, I don't think he did and I don't see either of us changing the other's mind.


    Someone with blonde hair. Or am I missing the joke?
    I think I am stubborn enough to keep my point of view.

    And I honor your point of view as well.

    Your tag line says " I hope the girls like me better as a bonde" ... no l
    Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.- Steven Wright

  10. #120
    FORT Fogey Sunnyone's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll add a few thoughts of my own...I think Jeff realized that Janu was totally out of the loop (she said so herself- she didn't realize that Steph was on the chopping block until she got there). She wanted to go home, and JP knew she probably wasn't, so he pointed it out to her. I don't mind that- I was afraid she was going to crack at any time anyway...
    As for the jury thing- they almost have to let her be on the jury- no one else can do it and know the ins and outs of the game at this point. They need an odd number. If they brought anyone back- we (I)would all cry unfair because they haven't been in the game this far. )

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