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Thread: 4/21 Show Discussion **SPOILERS**

  1. #241
    FORT Fogey JamiLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyaltyBuff
    While Steph is continuously mentioned as a threat, she hasn't won the RC or IC yet. Therefore, why aren't they discussing Tom as a threat and vote him out? My guess is that they mean she is more of a threat as in getting final votes if she is in the F2.

    In any case, I say vote out Jen, then Katie -- both annoy me!
    amen to that boot order. Except I hope it's that sorry @ss Katie first. I've never disliked someone on this show as much as her. So glad Janu told her off. What a beast.
    The Pats will be back next year. Watch out.....

  2. #242
    FORT Fogey live4romance's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chrelsey
    I, for one, am not totally convinced that Tom was really swayed by Gregg, and that he would have voted for Steph. How many times does someone tell one alliance that they are going to vote a certain way - I guess to keep the peace and keep their strategy secret - and then go ahead and vote a totally different way at Tribal Council? We've seen that happen MANY times. I think he told Gregg what he knew Gregg wanted to hear, and he could have been saying what he said at TC to back all of that up in Gregg's mind, all the while knowing that he was going to do something totally different.

    Maybe I'm just being gracious because I really like Tom - I don't know. The truth is, none of us will really know what he was going to do last night unless he 'fesses up to it when this is all over.

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    I so agree with what you have said Chrelsey! Sure hope that is, indeed what happened.

  3. #243
    Ms Ambusher dberk's Avatar
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    Tom did tell the camera that he didn't want to get rid of Steph. Then he said "We'll see. Things change" which can be interpreted different ways.

    I don't recall anyone remarking on his comment at the beginning of the IC when Jeff talked about the night in solatary and Tom said he was thinking about bailing just so he could spend a night away from the rest of them. He said it jokingly, but I wonder if he would have done it on an RC.

    After the way she voted against Bobby Jon and then lied about it, Steph really can't be mad at Tom and Ian. I only hope they recognize the error of their ways.

  4. #244
    FORT Fogey kyrjar's Avatar
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    I was merely disappointed in Tom and Ian and Katie, that they did not realize that they need Stephanie (becoming 3 versus 4, if Gregg and Jen teamed up with Janu and Caryn). Don't see why they didn't argue together to get rid of Janu more strongly. They could have just said, "ya know, Janu drives me crazy and I don't want to vote for Stephanie yet. She hasn't shown that she can beat any of us guys." Ian could agree, then what could Gregg say.

    Have to give Gregg alot of credit that he could make them go against their own best interest. I honestly think Gregg would have made his power play against Tom & Ian in the very next week. He specifically said that he needed Janu's vote even tho he didn't like her, and the numbers were right for the plan that he told Coby.

    I'd really like Stephanie to win it all. Not sure why except she has come thru huge odds so far. Is it possible she didn't tell Tom, Ian or Katie what Coby said to her about Gregg and Jen's backstab plan?

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    It's only a good stratedy if your in the F2. Put yourself in the game, would YOU want Steph in the F2 with you? They will all think she deserves it more and give HER the money and not YOU. Nobody wants to have someone who is "deserving" against them in the F2. The only one who ever came remotely close to having a deserving F2 was Colby. That's not to say Tina was more deserving or not but by not having Kieth with him in the F2 it cost him $1 million dollars.
    Nope, I wouldn't want to be with Steph in F2, but I also wouldn't want to be with any of the men. The only chance I would have to win the million is to be in F2 with one of the women (other than Steph), so that's why the all girl alliance makes the most sense. Take out the men now that you can. Otherwise, they will keep winning immunity and you will never get take them out. Save Steph til all the men are gone, then you can take her out. As strong as Steph is at immunity challenges, she still hasn't proven that she's as good as the men. Your chances are going to be much better against her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    She didn't get in with them right away, she had an informal alliance with them going back to the first day. Everyone came to her to talk, she didn't actively seek anyone out to get a strategy going. She also didn't tell everything Coby told her. She kept the Gregg tidbit to herself and she should have told Tom. That would have meant at least 3 others would go before her. Coby got himself booted for openly shooting his mouth off, she didn't steer anything his way. They all knew he was up to no good.
    Again, I didn't say her strategy was the best. But you said she didn't do any strategizing at all, which isn't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    Actually katie already is in the F4 without Steph, she doesn't need her. Jen has Gregg and a F5 allaince and she doesn't need her either but Caryn is out in the cold. Caryn would be the only one to benefit from allaigning with her. No way could these 3 useless woman keep Steph from winning one immunity. Why would any of them want to go to F2 with her? I'd rather keep the other 2 useless women around and scheme to be in F2 with one of them instead of any of the men or Steph. You want the person you can beat out for the money.
    Yes, you just proved my point. You wouldn't want to be in F2 with any of the men, so this is your one and only chance of taking them out. If you take our Steph first, then your gender advantage is gone and your chances of taking out any of the men is also gone (they will win immunity everytime now hands down). I would team up with Steph at least this one time to take out one of the men first (Tom or Gregg). Then after that, you can go ahead and take out Steph if you really feel she's a bigger threat then Gregg or Tom. Personally, I would rather take out one of the other men first before Steph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shady64
    I'm curious, play devil's advocate. Your in the F2, a million dollars on the line, who do you want by your side? I sure as heck would want Katie, Jenn or Caryn (in that order) Katie has not done a thing the entire game and nobody likes her, Jenn hasn't done anything either. Caryn had done work around the camp but she's butted heads with others. That would be a gimme for the money.
    Yes, of course I would want Caryn, Jenn or Katie in F2. But what is the best strategy for achieving that? I would stick with the women, not with the men. The men will beat me at immunity *every single time*, so why would I want to keep them in the game?

  6. #246
    FORT Fogey JonasGrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by live4romance
    Originally Posted by chrelsey
    I, for one, am not totally convinced that Tom was really swayed by Gregg, and that he would have voted for Steph. How many times does someone tell one alliance that they are going to vote a certain way - I guess to keep the peace and keep their strategy secret - and then go ahead and vote a totally different way at Tribal Council? We've seen that happen MANY times. I think he told Gregg what he knew Gregg wanted to hear, and he could have been saying what he said at TC to back all of that up in Gregg's mind, all the while knowing that he was going to do something totally different.

    Maybe I'm just being gracious because I really like Tom - I don't know. The truth is, none of us will really know what he was going to do last night unless he 'fesses up to it when this is all over.

    ______________________________ _________________

    I so agree with what you have said Chrelsey! Sure hope that is, indeed what happened.
    Be convinced because the fact that they had nothing to say to Steph when she asked them if they are still voting off Janu, says it all for Steph. That's how she suspected that it was her that's going to be voted off, else Tom and Ian would have assured her that it's Janu. And it was confirmed when Jeff asked Tom about Stephanie in the TC.

  7. #247
    Go Bruins! Qboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisredhead
    While I know it's ridiculous to invest any emotion in any reality series, I was truly disappointed in Tom tonight when it seemed he was more than willing to vote Steph off (had Janu not quit). I had admired him because he seemed such a true competitor but I think real gamesmen want to play against the best people. Then their victory is all the more sweet. I was dismayed he was willing to vote out honest "competition" so that his road could be easier. I know, I'm living in a dream world.
    Yup. It's the same dream world I'm living in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Cutie
    Apparently I'm the only one bothered by this, but why does Janu get to keep her jury spot! She f'in quit!
    You're not alone. I'm very bothered by this. Quitters should not get to participate in any way. The producers should have gone to Loser Lodge and brought back your boy, Bobby Jon, to sit on the jury.
    Last edited by Qboots; 04-26-2005 at 02:46 AM.
    "I'm telling you - it's a madhouse out there. I feel like Charlton Heston waking up in the field and seeing the chimp on top of the pony." ~ Dennis Miller

  8. #248
    Leo
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    I agree that they shouldn't have allowed Janu to sit on the jury, but I wouldn't have called back Bobby Jon either. Let there be a jury of six. If there is a tie, then let's have another session of Q&A and revote.

  9. #249
    FORT Fogey kyrjar's Avatar
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    Tom and Ian made a huge mistake.

    They underestimated Gregg -- who was beginning his power play and needed Janu's vote. This shows me that Gregg has more will than Tom and Ian to play the politics of the game.

    Now that Janu quit, Stephanie has every right to pull the female alliance together since Tom and Ian did not follow through on their original alliance. The female alliance is absolutely the smartest thing for the girls. They have a guarantee into the top 4 (or 5 if a male wins last immunity) -- and then would be competing against other girls for immunity. Steph is great, but I'd rather compete against her than Ian, Tom or Gregg, for sure.

    Just don't know if Jenn will go against Gregg (or just hedge her bets until Tom and Ian are off) and if Katie will go against her original alliance of Tom and Ian.

    In any event, either Tom or Ian should be voted out depending on whichever one doesn't win immunity. Not that I want to see that, but they did make their own bed, to my dismay.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRealityShow
    Nope, I wouldn't want to be with Steph in F2, but I also wouldn't want to be with any of the men. The only chance I would have to win the million is to be in F2 with one of the women (other than Steph), so that's why the all girl alliance makes the most sense. Take out the men now that you can. Otherwise, they will keep winning immunity and you will never get take them out. Save Steph til all the men are gone, then you can take her out. As strong as Steph is at immunity challenges, she still hasn't proven that she's as good as the men. Your chances are going to be much better against her.

    The threats are going to go after each other regardless of what alliances form now. Gregg wants Tom and Ian gone, Tom wants Gregg gone. I donít know about Ian, I think he can win over either man in the F2 but he might want to go the sure win route and take do-nothing Katie. He has to be worried one of the other threats might try to knock him out. Only one can win immunity leaving the other 2 at risk, just what all 3 men want in order to get each other out. The thinking for everyone is, get rid of the threat now and save the weaker ones to be picked off at a later date. Let them do the dirty work to each other before they set their sights on me. If I know I canít make it to the F2, Iím going to get as far as I can to get a bigger payday. At least one of the men is going to be booted before any of the 3 weaker women. I wouldnít trust any of the women in my all girl alliance in the least either. Jenn and Greg are tight and Katie has an alliance with Tom and Ian for the last 27 days. If they all were not aware of the steph alliance with TIK they made on day 1, they will be after this tribal council. Though she wasnít on Koror tribe, I wouldnít hold much hope that her 1st day alliance will hold up at alll but why take chances? Any of them can flip again very easily

    It depends on whose perspective you look at it from. Katie is virtually guaranteed a spot in the F2. She is such a despicable person, no one will vote to give her the money. I think the hate for her is stronger than the resentment toward the men. Right behind her is Jenn. Like Katie she did zero in camp and zero in challenges, though she is not as disliked as Katie, I think the only one she could win against is Katie but she could get to F3 for the same reasons as Katie. Neither has a reason to rock the boat and risk going home sooner. On the other end of the scale is Steph. She can win against anyone and thatís why sheís going next. Sheís not resented or hated like the others. Surprisingly I think its Caryn who has a better advantage of winning in F2. She did more than Katie or Jenn and is more liked than them and she is not resented like Tom or Greg is. Ian is a mystery to me. Heís second banana and Tom is taking most of the heat while Gregg is shown scheming and Ian is not. He seems less a threat to be resented as much as the other men and he is more likeable than the other women. Iíd give him an edge over Caryn, if they were against each other.

    I think I'd get farther without her and you think you'd get farther with her. Were going to disagree on the subject. And thatís that.

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