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Thread: The troubling "women as sheep" phenomenon

  1. #11
    RESIDENT JEDI MASTER Stargazer's Avatar
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    notasheep, I think that the phenomenon is especially prevalent in older women. With the possible exception of Tina, MB always seems to cast a middle age women who doesn't seem to have all of her marbles (Jan, Lill).
    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."- Yoda

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  2. #12
    Premium Member croftchrism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pink_princess
    :
    I'm even beginning to wonder if Lill's Rain Woman act is just an act..and she's lulling Burton and Jon into a very false sense of security.
    .
    I see the other remaining women as a little sneakier then they appear, but Lil??? Come on! I don't think there is anything there!!!
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  3. #13
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    I think the bigger problem is not that MB casts women as sheep, but that only the sheep make it to the end. Alicia, Jerri, Stacy, Deena, Kathy, to name a few that come to mind this early, were decidedly not ovine. They were strong, smart, calculating -- but, perhaps for those reasons, they didn't make it to the end. Perhaps only the non-threatening, coat-tailing women can fly under the radar long enough to make it to the final two. As for Tina, I would not necessarily consider her a sheep a la Jan, Helen and this current batch. She was a strategic player who entered into an early, secret alliance with a physically strong player and yet she ultimately mentally manipulated him (of course, not difficult considering he'd do anything for a mommy figure).

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    Very Proud Grandpa! LoneStarSpur's Avatar
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    I think Burn This nailed it. Good post.

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  5. #15
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    With the exception of Sandra, I think most of the women on the show were/are sheep. Sandra at least tries to form an alliance of all women, just that the others won't cooperate.

    My predictions for what is going to happen:

    1. The women will not be able to form an alliance to kick off the guys because Lil is so enamored by Burton's big muscles and pretty face that she will do whatever he wants.

    2. Therefore, if Darrah or Sandra gets immunity, the other one will be voted off, followed by the other one the next time. If Darrah does not win immunity, she will be the next voted off because she is a strong competitor.

    3. That leaves the remaining three to be Burton, Lil, and Jon. Burton will win immunity and choose Jon for the final two because he thinks he would have a better chance against him.

    4. The jury will pick Jon because they resent Burton because he was voted out and came back and even though Jon is a slimy slug, they will give it to him because at least he was not a castaway.

  6. #16
    Jonesing for Ben pink_princess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by getreal
    So Darrah is giving everybody the "silent treatment". right?
    I don't know ...

    You must be a guy.

    Who says giving someone the silent treatment...or maybe flashing a little side view of your boob while taking a shower isn't a form of manipulation and game play if you're doing it to maybe get a guy/guys to view you as non-threatening? It's just using a different asset than big pecs, lol - well, that didn't come out right, but you know what I mean.

    I'm not saying Darrah is hatching some Machiavellian plot, but remember that editing and games not necessarily played out in the open are coloring how we see the players. Christa seemed to be made out a lot nicer than she really was and I've heard rumors that Jon isn't as big of an ass as he seems (that one I really am suspicious of).

    There was some wondering if Lill might have a degree in engineering based on the ring on her pinkie. Just musing here, but would that make a difference in whether or not she may be smarter than she acts? I really can't tell - my brother has a degree in engineering and he's the biggest dork I've ever known, so maybe she actually is that helpless and whiny.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by notasheep
    I count myself as a longtime survivor fan – I have seen every episode of every season. But I may stop watching altogether because I am increasingly irked/distressed by what I will call the “women as sheep” phenomenon. I have grown to become increasingly disgusted with the female survivor contestants who 1) blindly follow the men who create and usually lead the alliance, 2) do not enter the contest with the mentality that they are playing a game that requires deception to win, 3) seem to give up rather than use strategy to improve their position.

    Granted, there are both male and female sheep in the game of survivor, but it seems to me that, in every group, the female sheep vastly outnumber the male sheep. Also, the male “airheads” may use strategy poorly, but at least they attempt to manipulate the outcome in some fashion. Yes, there are always the “eye candy” contestants – young men and women on a summer camp adventure to show off their physiques. But what of the other players? Too often, the women seem to be naïve, out to make friends, or play the mother role. People might argue that women have won survivor so what I am saying is not true. But I just feel this in my gut. It was obvious in the last survivor series and seems to be happening once again in this series. Comments?
    Maybe I'm naive, but I see it all as each person coming in with a plan or at least an idea of the best strategy.

    Animal survival plans if you wish, by both males and female.

    The wisdom or potential success of said plan rests on adaptability and the other animals in the habitat.

    Nicole: Noisy bird

    RyanS: The Black Sheep

    Trish: Not so wise Owl

    Michelle: squeaky Mouse

    Shawn: Sheep, nice wool

    Osten: Must be a Fish ... isn't there a sheep-fish ? Pelican Food :

    Andrew: Beta Dog masquerading as an Alpha Dog. Lots of bark.

    RyanO: A Sheep who thinks he's a sheep dog

    Rupert: a bear, of course

    T: Alpha dog trying to herd the sheep, but got too Yappy.

    Christa: Clumsy lumbering Bear Cub

    Burton: garden snake

    Sandra: noisy/deadly rattlesnake, also sneaky big cat

    Jon: Snake, also Chameleon

    Lil: Sheep ... eeeeeeewe !

    Darrah: Wolf (or a Shepherd) in sheep's clothing.

    ................

    Feel free to debate or correct my animal analogies. It was just for fun and I'm no expert on animal survival.

    But actually, notasheep said

    Granted, there are both male and female sheep in the game of survivor, but it seems to me that, in every group, the female sheep vastly outnumber the male sheep.
    It took me a while to see any merit in some of the womens' seemingly sheeply behavior -- but now it looks to be strategic and much of this behavior may be just good people-reading skills.

    So don't worry too much, notasheep ... someone wise once said something like,

    "a man is only as tall as a woman lets him be."

  8. #18
    FORT Regular Thearnon's Avatar
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    I think that most of the women are independent thinkers with their own strategies but easily, very easily swayed when it comes to persuasions of others. Jenna and Heidi knew last year that Rob had lied to them about their alliance and had voted one of their group out yet when they could have voted Rob out the next episode they were persuaded by him to do something else instead and there was no question they were extremely mad at him. Again Sandra has the knowledge, she knows that Jon is a snake and to her credit she has tried to form an alliance with the women. She actually had the alliance formed but she again was easily persuaded by Jon to vote differently. Once she did that she no longer had Darrah's confidence so Darrah who had already been persuaded by the snake would not vote with Sandra the next time. The women seem to have no strength in their own selves and will jump on whatever bandwagon they percieve to be out there. It amazes me that they continue to jump on whatever Jon is telling them because they know he is a liar and that his word cannot be trusted - but they seem to believe that Jon is calling the shots and that he is presenting to them the decision of the majority "alliance" and of course they don't want to be eliminated so they jump on that bandwagon. But again it is because they have no strength in their own selves, they are SHEEP.

    Sandra's error was huge - she had the alliance formed, she had everything she needed to carry out the plan and execute Burton and Jon. But she let herself be deceived and now she will likely be the next to go. The only thing that may save her is if Jon sees Darrah because of her immunity victories or Lil because of the niceness factor as a bigger threat to him. But Lil is so brain dead that Jon knows he can lead her where ever he wants her to go.

    And I don't mean to just pick on the women it is true af anybody. Anyone can be easily deceived and follow a path they should not just as when people followed Jim Jones blindly to their own suicide only that was a much, much more evil deception.

  9. #19
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    Sandra's Choice wasn't a Sheep Shot

    Quote Originally Posted by Thearnon
    I think that most of the women are independent thinkers with their own strategies but easily, very easily swayed when it comes to persuasions of others. ...

    ... Again Sandra has the knowledge, she knows that Jon is a snake and to her credit she has tried to form an alliance with the women. She actually had the alliance formed but she again was easily persuaded by Jon to vote differently. Once she did that she no longer had Darrah's confidence so Darrah who had already been persuaded by the snake would not vote with Sandra the next time.
    The women seem to have no strength in their own selves and will jump on whatever bandwagon they percieve to be out there. It amazes me that they continue to jump on whatever Jon is telling them because they know he is a liar and that his word cannot be trusted - but they seem to believe that Jon is calling the shots and that he is presenting to them the decision of the majority "alliance" and of course they don't want to be eliminated so they jump on that bandwagon. But again it is because they have no strength in their own selves, they are SHEEP.

    Sandra's error was huge - she had the alliance formed, she had everything she needed to carry out the plan and execute Burton and Jon. But she let herself be deceived and now she will likely be the next to go. The only thing that may save her is if Jon sees Darrah because of her immunity victories or Lil because of the niceness factor as a bigger threat to him. But Lil is so brain dead that Jon knows he can lead her where ever he wants her to go.
    I disagree with your Sandra as a sheep thought.

    I do not think Sandra was persuaded by Jon or blindly followed him or his bandwagon.

    Rather I think she considered several paths and opted to shoot for a possible F4 comprised of Burton/Lil/Jon and herself, knowing if she could make it to F2 she'd have a darn good chance of beating any of them. She probably hoped/is hoping to let Burton continue to fish and feed them and then to persuade Jon and Lil that Burton would be too much of a physical threat to either of them in an F3 Outlast/Stamina challenge and that at that point, keeping her would better balance their odds.

    There's a possibility that she considered a Plan B of manipulating for an F4 of Herself, Christa, Jon and Lil ( also all beatable in an F2) and dumping Burton or Darrah the dreaded Morgan : next and then Christa before F3. In that case I think her next move would have been to renegotiate the "boot Lil next" deal and instead barter Christa for Burton with Jon. ( Ooops, go back to Plan A ! )

    I don't think she wanted an all-estrogen F4 if she could avoid it. She probably considered that she might have less of a chance of winning immunity at F4 or F3 in an all girls alliance of T/Christa/Darrah/ and herself because she is or at least seems the least physically strong, and that an in an F2 against any of them, it wouldn't be a slam-dunk.

    By the way, Sandra's "love-Lil" comment at TC was also a strategic, move to pave a path and make Lil think she's a targeted threat.

    So --- while I don't know if Sandra made the RIGHT choice, I doubt that she was persuaded by Jon at all. I believe she assessed the overal situation and her chances and made her OWN decison, based on what she considered to be her best STRATEGIC shot ... again ... no Sheep Shots by Sandra.
    Last edited by echoecho; 12-08-2003 at 04:16 PM.

  10. #20
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread. I thought back to see if I could recall any good, truly strategic female players, and I came up with T-Bird (Teresa Cooper from S3). I think she played a very good strategic game, but she ultimately was doomed by being in an alliance with one of the worst Survivor players ever (Kim Powers) AND by getting caught in the Brandon-Frank crossfire. I also think Kelly Goldsmith was a good strategic player, too, but I attribute more strategic play to her than they really showed on the series.
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