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Thread: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #221
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I seem to remember past seasons when people agreed to an alliance of a final five (or whatever) with the caveat that when they got to that point, it was every person for himself/herself. I think bringing honesty, integrity, religion, and "family" into it is why the jury wasn't happy with Coach. Or Albert, for that matter, particularly after he took the immunity necklace as an act of faith from Brandon and then turned around and helped blindside him. And yeah, it was dumb of Brandon to be that trusting, but he really, truly, naively believed that Coach and Albert shared his beliefs, so it came off rather as if they had kicked a puppy. I don't think that helped them with the jury, many of whom seemed fairly protective of Brandon.

    If Coach had just agreed to keep up an alliance with the understanding that at the point when they had to start turning on each other that all bets were off, I don't think people like Rick or Brandon would have been nearly as upset. Realistically, you might as well start alliances with that understanding, because at some point, all alliances of more than three have to break down, because you're forced to vote people off whether you want to or not.

    What's ironic is that what Coach used to hold his alliance together is probably what ultimately cost his the game. Sophie stayed true to the alliance until she didn't have any choice--and I'm sure she and the rest of them would have been happy to vote out Ozzy instead of Rick if they could have--and had to fight for just herself. Moreover, though she participated in the prayer circle stuff, she didn't make any claims about honor guiding her game. She talked about strategy, not integrity, and she did far less lying to others. She also admitted her faults and where she made mistakes in the game and what she regretted doing when the jury asked their questions. That had to help too.

    It occurred to me just a while ago that if Sophie just graduated from college, she's not that much older than Brandon, which makes her not necessarily understanding that others could take her approach as cold or bitchy more plausible. She's really young yet, and science departments (I'm assuming she majored in something like biology and chemistry) can still be rather "old boy" insistent on being analytical and concerned with results rather than emotional reactions. She may well have been unaware of how others might perceive her directness. However, Whitney calling her out on it, considering her own behavior on the show, was beyond the pale. I'm not sure I'd want to be all that chummy with Whitney either, so I get why Sophie may not have wanted to spend a lot of time with her.

  2. #222
    FORT Fan ginger2's Avatar
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I recall Coach saying more than one time that when their alliance got to final five, it would have to be a different game plan, and everyone at that point, would have to decide what was best for their own individual game. He had to lie about taking everyone to the end with him, or he wouldn't have gotten there himself. I also believe that Coach got hemmed into taking more of a religious/integrity stance than perhaps he wanted to, by Brandons inflexibility. That being said, the honest/integrity theme has been a part of his persona throughout his times in Survivor. Within the game of Survivor, I believe that he did play with as much integrity as he could, and I do think he agonized at times over the decisions he made. He understood that Survivor is a game of deception and necessary to progress in the game. I confess I'm a fan, but I'm not unhappy that Sofie won. She did it fair and square, and did slay the dragon slayer. I was a little turned off by Sofie expecting Albert to give up his own chances to win immunity, even if his chances were slim. Coach is a character to be sure. One with a rather unique belief system which I can't really comprehend, but I have always found him interesting. I'm glad he will be taking home $100,000 too for second place. I heard he had lost his job prior to going on this years Survivor. So I'm sure he can use the money.

    While Ozzy made some social blunders initially, after he got to Redemption Island, he played an awesome social game and was genuinely liked by everyone. I'm glad he got the $100,000. He deserved it.
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata View Post
    Rick is going to vote for Ozzy, that's his big strategic move? Seriously what has Ozzy ever done for him?
    Ozzy tried to keep him in the game and oust Sophie. I think that's enough.

    My thing is Coach was an idiot to keep Sophie. He totally underestimated her. Rick would have been like Yul's little minion. He would not have gotten any votes.

    Coach was always playing for second place. He was either going to lose to Sophie or to Ozzy. The only way Coach would have won is if he'd cut Sophie loose and then Ozzy lost immunity.

    I wish he'd listened to Ozzy though. Sophie is exactly what Ozzy said she was. And she cried to sway the jury not because she meant it. Med students don't cry like that. They're good under pressure. And they don't give 2 Sh*** about what people think of them. This whole episode made me like Sophie even less.
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    Are we sure he actually believes that? Or did he just tell Coach that? If Ozzy could get to the final three by orchestrating Coach's ouster, he'd have an awfully good case to make to that jury--he'd have been dominant in the challenges, and he'd have gotten rid of the other dominant player at the last possible juncture. And if you're Sophie or Albert, do you really want to go to the final three with both Coach and Ozzie?
    IMO I think Ozzy knew if he made it to the end that he'd win. He easily had the following votes: Dawn, Whitney, Keith, and the medical pot guy. I also think he would have Rick. I think Coach may have gotten 2 votes at the most against Ozzy. Ozzy knew he didn't have to worry about who he was sitting next to because he'd have won hands down.
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  5. #225
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I don't think Coach would have won against Rick. Majority of the jury actually raised their hand that if Rick were in the final 3 instead of Sophie, they would vote for Rick. So Coach actually made it as far as he could whether you change the outcome of the F3 among the last 5 players.

    So Cochran and Edna voted for Coach. Who is the third? At first I thought it's Brandon because he said that he forgave Coach. Then i'm thinking it could be Oz since Oz never really liked Albert or Sophie. But then someone said that it's Whitney because she also didn't like Albert and especially Sophie. Then again, it could be Jim because knowing him, he probably would vote for who actually was the perceived leader of the tribe. Maybe Edna voted against Coach?

    Whatever happened to the Fallen Comrades walk?
    Last edited by jammyjoe; 12-19-2011 at 04:18 AM.

  6. #226
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarMama View Post
    As I think of the Great and Powerful Oz going to the jury, I ask myself "what happened?" I immediately recalled Ozzy (while lounging with Elyse) asking Cochran how to spell his (Cochran's) name... was that a turning point? or just an example of Cochran's feeling alienated from his tribe? If only Cochran had felt closer to his tribe - would he have turned on them? Would it be Ozzy in the driver's seat instead of Coach all this time?
    I actually don't think it would be Ozzy in the driver's seat. I think Ozzy's tribe were there to play so I think they would have blindsided Ozzy at 5-6. I actually think if Cochran had stayed loyal he'd have ended up higher than 6. The other 5 knew if he made it to the end he'd likely win because everyone respects the competitor Ozzy is. he singlehandedly kept his tribe in the first time he played. If it wasn't for him, his tribe would have been history pretty quick. Yul had the idol but Ozzy did the work (and should have won because of it).

    I could see Keith, Whitney, Cochran, and Jim getting together and ousting Ozzy. I could see Cochran going out 4 at most. Dawn would have gone first just for her likability. Then Ozzy would have gone. Cochran made a truly boneheaded move. He says he reads this stuff so I hope he does. You blew it buddy. You followed the cult instead of staying with people who wanted to play the game. That tribe wanted to use Ozzy to get numbers at the merge. They would not have let him get to the end IMO.
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarMama View Post
    Ozzy's arrogance! "I beat myself"
    I actually agree that he beat himself. He had a major lead and he was overthinking the puzzle. I think that's what he meant. He said he should have just relaxed and stayed poised like he did on redemption when everyone was helping the other player.

    I wish the final challenge was still endurance. No way would Sophie beat Ozzy in that. He out performed everyone in the athletic part of the challenge. He just couldn't stay focused and see it through. IMO that is not arrogant.
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    Who would you pair him with on AR?

    Geez, can you imagine Ozzy on AR?
    I'd love to see Ozzy on TAR. Just don't have a stop in Amsterdam cause I think he'd lose the race right there. lol
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  9. #229
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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by yourefired View Post
    Ozzy tried to keep him in the game and oust Sophie. I think that's enough.

    My thing is Coach was an idiot to keep Sophie. He totally underestimated her. Rick would have been like Yul's little minion. He would not have gotten any votes.

    Coach was always playing for second place. He was either going to lose to Sophie or to Ozzy. The only way Coach would have won is if he'd cut Sophie loose and then Ozzy lost immunity.



    I wish he'd listened to Ozzy though. Sophie is exactly what Ozzy said she was. And she cried to sway the jury not because she meant it. Med students don't cry like that. They're good under pressure. And they don't give 2 Sh*** about what people think of them. This whole episode made me like Sophie even less.
    I never liked her, and to hear her yell at Albert to help her with her puzzle, she made me sick

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    Re: 12/18 Finale Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata View Post
    Woo woo, Ozzy climbs a palm tree and does a Captain Morgan pose and gets a $100,000 reward. Really?
    I believe people rewarded Ozzy because they appreciated his amazing accomplishment in winning every RI duel. His performance was all the more impressive in that he remained focused and calm during each of those duels, even when he ended up competing not only with the other ousted Survivors, but with everyone else as they tried to help every competitor defeat Ozzy.

    I hated Ozzy's behavior early in the game. But when he ended up on RI, everything seemed to change for him. I think he found himself at home and peace in that solitary environment and thrived on being able to survive using only his skills and talents. He was able to be kind to and supportive of the other players passing through his home because he was confident in his physical and mental abilities to win challenges and because he thrived in his role as "provider." He knew his position would serve him well, and he was in complete control. I found the whole dynamic really interesting. Sophie was spot-on in her assessment of people passing through Ozzie's "Pleasure Dome."

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    I don't think Coach would have won against Rick. Majority of the jury actually raised their hand that if Rick were in the final 3 instead of Sophie, they would vote for Rick. So Coach actually made it as far as he could whether you change the outcome of the F3 among the last 5 players.
    I believe they raised their hands that they would have voted for Coach if he had taken Rick to the final instead of Sophie. Jeff made a point of letting Coach know that his decision to take Sophie cost him the million dollars.
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