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Thread: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #71
    PWS
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I am liking Sophie more and more---wish we'd seen more of this earlier on as I think (from the editing and the Cain like self destruction going on now) that she is likely to win. She's playing like I'd like to think I'd play...making (by luck,being on the beach?) an early strong alliance, performing well but not scarily well (i.e., target producing) in challenges, working around camp, going along to get along but not drinking the Kool-Aid and sacharine flavored religion, mostly staying out of fights and letting the testosterone work its magic, and rolling her eyes so the jury can see her opinions....and doing really sharp analyses of what's going on. Totally loved Ozzy's dome of pleasure concept. A good visual but also a good analysis...he feeds them a little, he sympathizes with them while still finding out what's going on, who hates whom (good for later jury speeches), and then he beats them without humiliating them and hugs them...yup, one on one Ozzy may actually have a social game and she's worried. None of the men seem to see that.
    I admit I'd have trouble faking my way through the repeated prayer circles though, especially as I became more and more convinced that most of the people in them were hypocrites just using them. I'm an agnostic/atheist, but I don't mind other people's sincere religion as long as it doesn't hurt others....just fake religion. Sophie reallly looks like she's gritting her teeth through the last few prayer circles with Coach, which is about where I'd be now.
    I think Coach is always aware of the camera...really, falling to the sand to pray??? Of course that lets Brandon see he is praying also. :roll
    I think Coach wants to maintain his image, not just for Brandon's vote, but even for post game Survivor reunions and possible returns to the game. Survivor is a big part of his life now...and he's had way more success at it than at what seemed like a pretty sad life before it (by success I mean fame, not winning).

    And I agree, Brandon needs to find a sensible ethical male role model....my guess is his over the top religion is like his over the top loyalty to his gang buddies who abandoned him in the fight. At home he's probably adopted a local conservative preacher as his father figure (since his own dad and uncle are such creeps), and then taken every word the man's said to an extreme. I used to just hate him for his behavior to Mikale, and I still hate the behavior and the kind of thinking that produced it, but I can sure see where it came from now and feel sorry for him. And I'm not sure that he will feel Coach used him....I'm sure Coach can explain away some of those unkind one on ones that we saw... The kid is desparate. Sad to think that he is a father.... when he still so obviously needs one.

    By the way, anyone else notice Coach throwing a hissy fit after Brandon beat him out for immunity? As bad as Ozzy. And yes, I saw the immunity necklace fall off ... really funny---a sign from God or a sign that Brandon didn't do a good job fastening it.
    A good show, a lot happened, a lot of "secrets" were revealed. And I don't think it's scripted, but I do think it is heavily edited.
    Last edited by PWS; 12-15-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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  2. #72
    FORT Fogey TripleGemini's Avatar
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    So...now that Brandon's gone...will there still be prayer circles? (Inquiring minds want to know ;-) )

  3. #73
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Is it possible Coach has deluded himself into believing he's performing God's will by voting out Brandon? Possibly. But that doesn't change the fact that he turned on him and is not taking responsibility for doing it or for the fact that most Christians do believe God has given them free will to choose between what's right and wrong--and that it's really hard to see turning on Brandon as being "good" in any way other than that it's good for Coach's game. Speaking of which, the Bible doesn't say a lot that's positive about money, and ultimately what Coach is hoping for is that he'll get a million dollars for manipulating everyone else better than anyone else could.

    All through the game, Coach has done any number of things that aren't exactly "Christian" or honorable. He lied about the hidden immunity idol, pretending to find it, and letting Brandon believe God somehow led him to it (and the others who knew about it did the same thing by keeping their mouths shut). He's clearly been intending to use Brandon's loyalty until it became a liability and has said so when out of earshot of Brandon and the others. He used Edna for as long as he could and then cast her aside, even though she was the first (and originally, only) person to be particularly welcoming to him. He also made a big deal of praying in public and forcing others to do so--I still can't forget him yanking Edna to her knees after a challenge where she took a lot of hard hits, because she wasn't quick enough to join his prayer circle of gratitude. I guess Coach missed that section of the scriptures that encourages Christians not to make a great show of their piety.
    I think Coach wants to maintain his image, not just for Brandon's vote, but even for post game Survivor reunions and possible returns to the game. Survivor is a big part of his life now...and he's had way more success at it than at what seemed like a pretty sad life before it (by success I mean fame, not winning).
    I quoted both of these because I think they both make good points in regards to Coach's character.
    I would like to add that I really believe that Coach knows exactly what he's doing with all this religious stuff... you can see how it's starting to wear him down, and I think he's even feeling some guilt about it. (As a pastor, he probably should )
    I'm just taking a shot here, but from what I've seen of Coach, the number one ruling factor that guides how he lives is that people look up to him.He's a coach, a pastor, a conductor... these are his career choices... all careers in which people look to him for guidance and leadership. It's how he has always wanted to be that guy in Survivor as well.. but more than just having people look to him for guidance, he wants to be the hero. The dragon slayer, the good guy. In the last couple of shows, I've seen his confidence unravelling a bit because he is in the position that he must turn on his "family"... maybe he feels a bit guilty, and maybe he sees his position of leader and good guy falling apart a little. His 'honour' is now on the line, and it's unsettling for him, because I think he can barely handle losing that.
    But, that said, he didn't come into this game with a whole lot of respect in the world of Survivor fans and media, so the title of "Sole Survivor" is paramount to him to help him feel worthy. It won't matter what people have said that is negative, if he is the "Sole Survivor", he's among an elite group and he can add it to his roster of amazing things he has done...
    This was a lot of conjecture, and I'm no expert in psychology, that's for darn sure, but it's my general feeling of who Coach is. It's not just Brandon who seeks self worth from those around him. Coach lives on other's perceptions of him, and if those perceptions are negative, he'll fill his life with accomplishments so he can remind himself he's a great guy.
    Just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.
    Last edited by spockwhat; 12-15-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  4. #74
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Every organized religion and spiritual persuasion is up to personal interpretation. I don't tag any group by one member nor do I think any individual can speak for a group. There is no right way to be or think. Intent behind the words is key. It is how you live your life that matters, real life. This is a game and all bets are off. If Coach is affecting his convictions, and I think he is, it is in the context of a game. And doing a damn good job too!

  5. #75
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    So...now that Brandon's gone...will there still be prayer circles? (Inquiring minds want to know ;-) )
    There might be one thats not on camera, we will never know

  6. #76
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini View Post
    So...now that Brandon's gone...will there still be prayer circles? (Inquiring minds want to know ;-) )
    I bet not. I doubt he will leave the group to do his beach thing, either. Coach is smart and he probably senses that those left do not share his passion. If he forces one I bet the edit leaves it out. It would create more buzz to notice it stopped when Brandon left.

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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Arielflies View Post
    My one request would be for an all Atheist cast, or at least one that doesn't trot out God every five minutes. Albert played to Brandon and Coach's fervor; Sophie is playing it cool, as is Rick...Ozzie would climb a tree and consider himself a god. Whatever - please, a cast not so devoted to the ethereal, and more to the practical.
    I posted above that I'm rather enjoying the spiritual journey some are going through on the island. And, I'm pretty much in the atheist camp.

    My son is a member of the Humanist group at his college - and a die-hard atheist who studies philosophy. OMG. On the one hand, a season of atheists on the beach might be dry as dirt. On the other, watching them sort through issues like morality and mother nature would be amazingly entertaining.

    Yes, I would like to see a show comprised of high-brow atheist intellects. For me, that would be as fascinating as it gets.

  8. #78
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    spockwhat, I think that's an excellent analysis of what motivates Coach---he lives to be looked up to.

    And I'd also like to see an atheist season, but they they don't have to be all highbrow intellectuals...I'm sure there are some ditch digger atheists out there! I'd certainly like to see some who were athletes as well as atheists, or it would be a pretty boring season. Of course Survivor likes conflict...they've had racially divided teams and gender divided teams, and "social class" (on the island) divided teams, so why not the religious vs. the atheist teams? Of course either way it comes out Survivor will be accused of loading the deck---and the merge would be especially difficult!

  9. #79
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Seeing how this season has played out really makes me even madder at Cochran. I actually feel like Ozzy's tribe would have played the game. There was no Kool Aid drinking going on in that bunch. They saw Ozzy as a threat and they would have manipulated things when it was right to get him out. This is another reason I think Cochran made such a dumb move. He would have likely lasted longer than 6th because that bunch wanted to win not just follow Ozzy to the finals. I love me some Ozzy (and I really want him to come back and wipe the floor with these idiots), but I think it would have been much more interesting to see how the game played out without the cult like tribes we've had this season and last. It would have made for much better TV.

    I'm pulling for Ozzy, and I think (knock on wood) that he will beat Brandon because I think Brandon has given up. I'm in the minority camp of someone who doesn't mind Albert. I actually think Albert has played a decent game. And I think if he made the finals that he could argue that none of them would have given it back either. I think he believed Coach would take Brandon. He got played too IMHO. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Albert win if Ozzy can't. The only mistake I think Albert made in the game is not rallying some troops (even if they came from the old Savaii) and getting rid of Coach early on in the merge. Actually, I don't think Coach should have made the merge, but it's like they lost all sense of reality when Coach was in their midst. Sure he had the idol but he was also so smug that he wouldn't have played it. Talk about a blindside.

    The only reason I think Ozzy doesn't deserve to win is how he played his idol. It was a dumb move. But I think him winning would really piss off the cult so I'm hoping to see it happen. Of course since I want it so badly, it probably won't. He should have beaten Yul because Ozzy single handedly saved his little tribe time and time again. Terry should have won his season but the twit what's her face wasn't woman enough to side with him. They just gave that game to Aras much the same way Rob's tribe gave it to him. I hate when that happens. I hope Ozzy gets his win because it's long overdue.
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    Re: 12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    To future Survivior players....if there is a player from a previous season, vote this player out FIRST! I have never understood why they keep this person around.
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