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Thread: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

  1. #31
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Coaches "honerable" and "loyal" display is strategy and neither of those qualities rule out silliness 29 days into a mentally and physically challenging game! Boys will be boys. We have seen much worse.
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  2. #32
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoepie View Post
    Coaches "honerable" and "loyal" display is strategy and neither of those qualities rule out silliness 29 days into a mentally and physically challenging game! Boys will be boys. We have seen much worse.
    I totally agree, Shoepie, and would forgive him his hypocrisy if I saw even a glint of "I'm such a stinker aren't I?" in his eyes when he's pontificating. Sadly, I see a man who has guzzled an entire vat of his own kool-aid, and a man who seems able to convince himself of just about any viewpoint or course of action, regardless of whether it contradicts his own words, by spouting off inane quotes by Nietzsche or some obscure philosopher. If he acknowledged his own ridiculousness I would have a lot more affection for him. I saw a glimmer of it in HvV when Tyson tried to tell him to cool it with the stories and the craziness, but that didn't seem to last. Sure, he's channeling it differently this time around, but I think he's still as nuts as ever.
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  3. #33
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    I was disgusted by Ozzie's behavior during the chicken incident, but I was also MAD at Cochran, first for allowing himself to be put in a position that clearly violated his value system and ethics, and then to be ridiculed during the "event." I can't imagine anyone who labels him/herself as a passionate protector of animals (to the PETA degree) continuing to participate in killing an animal in such a bizarre, cruel, Lord of the Flies manner.

    Cochran is so busy trying to fit in by doing what he is told to do, and thus thinking it is keeping him in the game, that he can't see that he would gain more respect by being confident in his actions and decisions. He is a man-child who needs someone to teach him what he can do to gain self-respect and confidence. He needs a very strong mentor who can guide him and tell him how to stand up for himself. Coach is pretending to fill that role right now, but he is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    I hope this doesn't sound like I am blaming the victim for being bullied. That is not my intent at all. I completely understand the dynamics of bullying. I was bullied relentlessly by two girls for months when I was in 8th grade. I was new at the school and had just come from a very insulated and disciplined Catholic school environment. I somehow made a perfect target. After some ongoing advice and support from my Mom (who also lent a warm shoulder to cry on), a change in my demeanor to show more confidence (which was, by the way, all an act), and one Phys Ed b-ball game where I schooled one of my tormentors, the bullying finally stopped. The funny thing is, my "acting" confident actually helped me learn how to "be" confident.

    I hope Cochran can come away from his time on Survivor with a new understanding and appreciation of himself and his unique strengths, instead of constantly focusing on his weaknesses.
    Last edited by mushybrain; 11-25-2011 at 11:01 PM.
    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  4. #34
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    I was disgusted by Ozzie's behavior during the chicken incident, but I was also MAD at Cochran, first for allowing himself to be put in a position that clearly violated his value system and ethics, and then to be ridiculed during the "event." I can't imagine anyone who labels him/herself as a passionate protector of animals (to the PETA degree) continuing to participate in killing an animal in such a bizarre, cruel, Lord of the Flies manner.
    I want to have a friendly debate with you, mushybrain. I'm not opposing you but just want to discuss more.

    As for Cochran and his animal/PETA ethics: isn't it just as bad for others to abandon their real life principles of not lying, or maniupulating others, loyalty (esp if thery were religious) as it is to abandon your feelings about animals? To me, it the same thing. It's playing the game, or aka "however much you're willing to sell your soul."
    Cochran knew that if he didn't hold the chicken, it was very likely that he would be voted off.
    And to the other poster, chopping it's head off was not torture, but a quick humane action. Thank goodness!

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    Cochran is so busy trying to fit in by doing what he is told to do, and thus thinking it is keeping him in the game, that he can't see that he would gain more respect by being confident in his actions and decisions. He is a man-child who needs someone to teach him what he can do to gain self-respect and confidence. He needs a very strong mentor who can guide him and tell him how to stand up for himself. Coach is pretending to fill that role right now, but he is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    I'm so hoping that Cochran is playing Coach as much as Coach is playing Cockran.
    I'm hoping that on the surface it appears that Coach is in the drivers seat but Cochran is smart enough to know this.
    What if ol' Cochran has been fooling everyone???
    I'd love that...but not sure that's what's happening.
    Last edited by Dragonlady; 11-26-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  5. #35
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    I agree with you Dragonlady. The condition Cochran's tribemates laid down for him at tribal council to stay in the game was he do their bidding. That was laid out very early on. Either he shut up and put up... or he goes home.
    Of course Cochran had a choice in the matter. I would have preferred he put his foot down and say, "I can't do this... it's against my principles." Being there, I would have killed the chicken for him. (I grew up on a farm... I know where meat comes from and can deal with it personally.)
    It comes down to two scenarios: he backs out, and he KNOWS he will be ridiculed. OR, he holds the chicken, (hoping to be one of the guys), and surprise, he also gets ridiculed. I truly believe it was a no win situation for Cochran, but maybe he was hoping for the best... Cochran also went fishing with Ozzy in hopes of being viewed a little more positively.
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  6. #36
    Premium Member waypast40's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    I never could stand Ozzy..he really loves himself a little too much...Go Cochran!
    :

    I am not afraid of dying....I just don't want to be there when it happens!

  7. #37
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    I totally agree, Shoepie, and would forgive him his hypocrisy if I saw even a glint of "I'm such a stinker aren't I?" in his eyes when he's pontificating. Sadly, I see a man who has guzzled an entire vat of his own kool-aid, and a man who seems able to convince himself of just about any viewpoint or course of action, regardless of whether it contradicts his own words, by spouting off inane quotes by Nietzsche or some obscure philosopher. If he acknowledged his own ridiculousness I would have a lot more affection for him. I saw a glimmer of it in HvV when Tyson tried to tell him to cool it with the stories and the craziness, but that didn't seem to last. Sure, he's channeling it differently this time around, but I think he's still as nuts as ever.
    Oh yeah, nuts is right. He is a character and I have a soft spot for him this season. Never liked him before. Eating the fat made him more sane to me. Go figure.
    jucamer and sparklete like this.

  8. #38
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I want to have a friendly debate with you, mushybrain. I'm not opposing you but just want to discuss more.

    As for Cochran and his animal/PETA ethics: isn't it just as bad for others to abandon their real life principles of not lying, or maniupulating others, loyalty (esp if thery were religious) as it is to abandon your feelings about animals? To me, it the same thing. It's playing the game, or aka "however much you're willing to sell your soul."
    Cochran knew that if he didn't hold the chicken, it was very likely that he would be voted off.
    And to the other poster, chopping it's head off was not torture, but a quick humane action. Thank goodness!
    Hey Dragonlady. Let the debating commence! Actually, after reading your post, I don't think we have much to debate about.

    To answer your question in the bold text: yes, I believe it is just as bad for people to abandon their ethics about lying, manipulating others and loyalty in an attempt to further themselves in the game (which is why I would probably fail miserably at playing Survivor). What I find completely hypocritical is when people loudly declare themselves to be a paragon of some virtue (such as being a staunch PETA supporter, or a completely honorable person, or a man of God), but behave in ways consistent with those virtues only when it fits their needs or otherwise furthers their agenda. Cochran made a big deal about his views on animal rights. I just think if someone makes such purposeful declarations, they better back up their talk with their actions.

    Hey spockwhat. If I ever find myself in a survival situation, I want you around to kill my dinner for me! I am not opposed to killing animals for food, but I would find it almost impossible to do the killing myself. I can't even kill a lousy spider in my house. I have to capture the thing in a plastic container and send it on its merry way outside. I understand your point about Cochran being in a no-win situation, but given his standing (or lack thereof) in his tribe, he had to know that he was doomed to be ridiculed no matter what he did. He is certainly smart enough to do a risk analysis, so he probably would have gained a lot more self-respect by choosing the option that allowed him to be true to his principles.
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    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  9. #39
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    Hey Dragonlady. Let the debating commence! Actually, after reading your post, I don't think we have much to debate about.

    To answer your question in the bold text: yes, I believe it is just as bad for people to abandon their ethics about lying, manipulating others and loyalty in an attempt to further themselves in the game (which is why I would probably fail miserably at playing Survivor). What I find completely hypocritical is when people loudly declare themselves to be a paragon of some virtue (such as being a staunch PETA supporter, or a completely honorable person, or a man of God), but behave in ways consistent with those virtues only when it fits their needs or otherwise furthers their agenda. Cochran made a big deal about his views on animal rights. I just think if someone makes such purposeful declarations, they better back up their talk with their actions.
    Yep, we pretty much agree. I hate the people who posture and back a big deal of their "beliefs, etc" and then behave differently. I couldn't do it so like you, I'd never be any good at this game. One has to be really good at being a hypocrite and I'd blow it very early in the game.
    KatesMom likes this.

  10. #40
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    Re: 11/23 Recap/Unseen Footage Episode

    mushybrain, I can totally see your point. I guess I would have preferred if Cochran stood up to his tribe too. I also wish that someone else had offered to take his place... the whole tribe is a bunch of wimps as far as I'm concerned. To be clear, it's NOT because they didn't want to kill the chicken personally... they're wimps because no one offered because they also were protecting their posistions in the game. At least Dawn has remorse for it.

    I think you can play the game well without being 'hypocritical.' If you treat it like a game... (there are no villians in a game of monopoly!) and don't cross certain boundaries, I think you can 'bluff' and still hold onto your principles. I don't think I could lie and outright promise someone final two without meaning it. But if someone told me that they would like to take me to the end, I don't think I'd argue with them, even if I had no intentions of it. There's a subtle difference there. Also, I wouldn't want to cross the line of 'using' someone's social status or religion as a means of manipulating them. We've seen both done this season.

    Ah man, I'd love to have a shot at the game, but I'm not sure I could keep my big mouth shut... that'd get me in a lot of trouble.

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