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Thread: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #81
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu View Post
    I don't think Cockroach was bullied by his tribe. They kept prompting him to step up his game because his tribe needed to win challenges to avoid going to tribal council and he never did so I understood their frustration with him. I wouldn't call that bullying.

    If their treatment of Cockroach was considered to be bullying then I think Cockroach bullied Keith and Whitney into turning on their alliance and voting Elyse out. He was no meek little innocent thing like he's making himself out to be with the other tribe.

    And I'm not sure if Jim was calling Cockroach a coward because he flipped on his tribe or if it was because of the way he did it. He could have voted for Keith on the first round of votes instead of in the re-vote. I thought maybe Jim was calling him a coward for not making his move in the first round, making it seem like he changed his mind about his vote when really he planned to take Keith out all along.

    I wish Survivor wouldn't make it come down to chance (picking rocks) in the event of a tie. They should have a skills challenge to determine who goes home of the two nominated. Or have the two nominated pick a rock from a bag instead of everyone but the two nominated.

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  2. #82
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu View Post
    I don't think Cockroach was bullied by his tribe. They kept prompting him to step up his game because his tribe needed to win challenges to avoid going to tribal council and he never did so I understood their frustration with him. I wouldn't call that bullying.

    If their treatment of Cockroach was considered to be bullying then I think Cockroach bullied Keith and Whitney into turning on their alliance and voting Elyse out. He was no meek little innocent thing like he's making himself out to be with the other tribe.

    And I'm not sure if Jim was calling Cockroach a coward because he flipped on his tribe or if it was because of the way he did it. He could have voted for Keith on the first round of votes instead of in the re-vote. I thought maybe Jim was calling him a coward for not making his move in the first round, making it seem like he changed his mind about his vote when really he planned to take Keith out all along.

    I wish Survivor wouldn't make it come down to chance (picking rocks) in the event of a tie. They should have a skills challenge to determine who goes home of the two nominated. Or have the two nominated pick a rock from a bag instead of everyone but the two nominated.
    I think whoever said it above was right - I think Jim called Cochran a coward because Cochran did not want to take the chance that he would draw the rock. He was afraid of leaving it to chance.

    As for your last comment - I haven't watched in a number of seasons - just came back this year. I seem to remember early on their were skill challenges in the event of a tie. Wasn't the challenge one year to build fire? I want to say that was in Season 2 or 3 - really early on. I agree - since this is a game of Survivor, I would really rather it be a skill challenge to determine who goes home.

  3. #83
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Yes. Thanks LucyVP for stating succinctly how I feel about Cochran's issues of entitlement. It goes back to the beginning of the show where he was appalled that he would be eliminated before a girl. Imagine! When most of the girls out there could kick his butt in challenges. I agree with Dragonlady as well that he was treated unkindly and yes it was unnecessary (see ya, Keith!) but he also treated others unkindly (calling people a stupid b*tch). He just didn't do it to their faces, which is indeed good Survivor strategy.

    Hey, he doesn't have to like his old tribe, and he can flip any time he wants, but it just bugs me to see him portraying the innocent victim when he hasn't been one. He's conspired against other people plenty and he's not kind in a lot of his comments. I would just like to see him own it instead of trying to play it both ways.

    Now, to move away from Cochran.

    I am surprised how much I dislike most of his old tribe anyway. I *loved* Ozzy in his first season, but it just seems like all the fun of it has gone for him. He seems tense and irritated and taking it waaaay too seriously. And he's got an ego, for sure. Keith is gone, thank goodness. Whitney is a non entity, and Jim is smarmy. Dawn I admire for her sincerity and her tenacity in the challenges (again, the oldest woman beats out the younger girls) but I wonder if she won't be in big trouble now for not revealing C.'s flip to them.

    I wonder if Brandon will be able to protect Cochran from the dirty looks he'll be getting from here on out. Hey, valid reasons or not, he flipped on his tribe. He can't expect sunshine and forgiveness back at camp. That's just unrealistic and if he does expect it or complains about how horrible they are to him now, after he flipped on them, then that just goes back to the 'entitlement' issue again, IMO.
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  4. #84
    Best Ever Pool Runner Angry Birds Champion, Rancho Ice Racer Champion pikachu's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Right now Albert is my favorite person in the game, although Dawn has been growing on me for the past few weeks. In some ways she reminds me of Jane from a few seasons back. She's very tenacious and savvy and if she hooks up with the right alliance could well end up making it to the end.

    I keep going back and forth with Ozzy, Coach and Brandon. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't. I have to say that Coach certainly has his strategy together much better than Ozzy does. It's funny because in the first week Ozzy was readily embraced by his tribe and Coach only grudgingly accepted by his tribe. It looked like Ozzy was going to have a stronger tribe but things sure flipped quickly! Ozzy is not running things at his tribe. He's scrambling to stay relevant to his tribe to keep from being voted out but it's not working. Coach has formed a solid tribe and it doesn't look like they're budging until all of Ozzy's tribe is gone.

    I haven't really made up my mind about Sophie, Whitney, Rick and a few others yet, mostly because we see so little of them. I'm not feeling the love for Jim yet. Edna...still don't know about her, either.

    Maybe now that they're all on one tribe I'll get a better chance to see some of the wallflower tribe members and make up my mind about them.

  5. #85
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    While I like the Redemption Island aspect, it cuts even further into what we see around camp. Survivor really needs an extra hour!

    I notice more and more how we say things about certain people we've only just noticed, or how we never hear from someone, or wonder what made a person do such-and-such...some off-the-wall act. Obviously things have happened in the background we've not been able to see - probably due to time constraints. We can now usually predict which two will be up for grabs at Tribal Council because of the way that particular show is edited.

    Another hour would enable us to see more of the interaction between these people and get to know them better. I think it would enhance the show immensely!

    Why does the Biggest Loser get 2 hours and Survivor doesn't?
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  6. #86
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom View Post
    I think whoever said it above was right - I think Jim called Cochran a coward because Cochran did not want to take the chance that he would draw the rock. He was afraid of leaving it to chance.
    Doesn't Jim have a gambling background, poker or something? It would make sense that he was willing to play the odds of the PROD in order to gain the numbers advantage. I think his wording of "coward" was definitely because he felt Cochran was too scared to take that chance.

    What I think Jim has missed is how slighted Cochran felt by his tribe, probably because Cochran would spend his time around the fire telling everyone how useless he was at everything. I remember him saying (about going out on the boat fishing) "I'm slightly nervous going on the boat for the first time because I bring zero experience, zero skill and zero confidence." (I looked that up). Granted, that was in a talking head segment, but if he brought this much self-deprecation to his interactions with the tribe, where he highlighted his own weaknesses continually, they probably didn't know the great extent to which what they said to his face bothered him.

  7. #87
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I should point out on behalf of myself, (and maybe a couple of others lol), that just because we don't like the treatment of Cochran, whether it was browbeating, bullying, or just plain beating the guy up, it doesn't mean we are all particularly fond of Cochran as a person.

    I'm not. I find him to be dorky... a prime example being the Pacino thing he tried in his confessional. It made me embarrassed for him. However, he could be the biggest dork living but it doesn't mean he deserves to be treated like crap. Never have I seen people get so upset about something like the mention of contacting herpes over a challenge. They went way overboard on that and they do on pretty much everything Cochran does or says. They pick and pick like a bunch of hens, because Cochran shows his weaknesses. There's really no justification for ganging up on a person... whether it's at every tribal council, or around the campfire or making snide remarks right in front of him. Hello, Keith, I'm talking to you, babe.

    In some ways, the same is true of Brandon. I absolutely despise him for his treatment of Micayla, he's a misogynist pig, but in no way do I find it ok the way Coach belittles him by using his religion against him. If Brandon found out the lies of Coach, I would feel he was justified in flipping on Coach, however much of a little jerk Brandon is in some ways.


    As for Coach, and off this topic, I wanted to mention that I wanted to smack him when he went on about how others see their (his and Cochran's) superiority and so find the weaknesses to pick on. That's just bull. It's like saying, 'there's nothing wrong with me, people are just jealous.' Coach, people think your "dragon slayer" stuff is ridiculous and your stories of greatness are moronic, because that is simply how they see them... not because they are intimidated by your superiority. lol I will happily recognize the good in anyone, but seeing flaws doesn't make me jealous. And Coach, you're flawed to the point of absurdity much of the time, and so we shake our heads and laugh. Cause what else do you do when a person is being absurd?
    Last edited by spockwhat; 11-04-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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  8. #88
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    Doesn't Jim have a gambling background, poker or something? It would make sense that he was willing to play the odds of the PROD in order to gain the numbers advantage. I think his wording of "coward" was definitely because he felt Cochran was too scared to take that chance.

    What I think Jim has missed is how slighted Cochran felt by his tribe, probably because Cochran would spend his time around the fire telling everyone how useless he was at everything. I remember him saying (about going out on the boat fishing) "I'm slightly nervous going on the boat for the first time because I bring zero experience, zero skill and zero confidence." (I looked that up). Granted, that was in a talking head segment, but if he brought this much self-deprecation to his interactions with the tribe, where he highlighted his own weaknesses continually, they probably didn't know the great extent to which what they said to his face bothered him.
    I have to point out that it is one thing to cut a person up a little in jest, and quite enough to continually tell another person to their face all their faults. Cochran has every right to put himself down, as annoying as it can be, but they don't. At one tribal council (at least) Cochran said, "IT HURTS," when Jeff asked him what his response was to the tribe saying that they were learning to put up with him. Of COURSE it hurts.

    And once again, it wasn't just Cochran crying about being picked on, Dawn confirmed it, and we've seen it. Just check out the comments by Keith to Cochran's face at the beginning of the episode. The pick, pick, pick followed by "sorry, Cochran."
    Last edited by spockwhat; 11-04-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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  9. #89
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I wish Cochran would put on his big-boy panties and confidently own his decision. If his Savaii tribe mates give him a hard time, he should just state that he did what he thought was best to keep himself in the game the longest and give him a chance to win. End of conversation. But I'm afraid that would be out of character, and he will be his insecure self wanting everyone to understand. How embarrassing for him that Brandon acted like he had to "protect" him. Good grief. Stand up for yourself, man.
    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  10. #90
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Nicely said, Spockwhat. No, there's no reason for people to treat others like crap, particularly in a game like Survivor and especially when you are down to the jury phase. If you don't like someone, fine, but if you're a smart player you still treat them with respect or at least not like crap if you want to have a shot at the million dollars. Not a lot of smart players this go around, and I'm including Cochran in this. And I get that Cochran was hurt by their comments. I think people are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I don't think the way they treated him was cool or appropriate, but I also believe that he has a way of presenting himself that reinforces the way they view him, and he seems to somehow strengthen that view with the comments he makes and the way he talks. The "I'll explain later" thing is what I mean. They were jerks. We get it! You had your revenge. Good for you. Now OWN your betrayal and tell them to shove off!! I would have more respect for him if he did that!

    And I agree with everything you said about Coach. I find this emoticon particularly appropriate when I think of him:
    Last edited by sweetpea; 11-04-2011 at 12:00 PM.

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