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Thread: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #71
    Organizing my sock drawer RBmumsie's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Cochran has BRAINS - ok, he's quirky and not much on brawn, but the guy is smart.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but the way I figured things:

    They go to drawing rocks:
    Cochran has a 1 in 10 chance of getting booted.
    Option 1: Cochran pulls the black rock and gets sent to Redemption, where he'll most likely lose and get sent home.
    Option 2: A Savaii member (Not Cochran) gets the black rock. The Savaii are now down 5 to 6 and get picked off one by one. Cochran's best outcome is to be sent out as the last of the Savaii. In other words, he makes it to Final 7
    Option 3. A Upolu pulls the black rock and Savaii is up 6 to 5. They proceed to pagong Upolu and Cochran's best outcome is to be Final 6, but Savaii will boot him anytime they feel like, so it could be as soon as Final 9. Savaii will, of course, have the numbers to vote out whoever they want, whenever they want.

    I think Cochran made the right decision. Coach's team is tight and they'll take him along to at least 7th place. His old tribe was snarky and disrepectful and let him know that his time there was limited. I think Cochran will enjoy the game a heck of a lot more from here on out.

    The definition of "bullying" is: Use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants. Cochran was being bullied at Savaii.
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  2. #72
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by RBmumsie View Post
    Well, I think Cochran did the right thing. His own tribe has been AWFUL towards him (except for Dawn). And, that "supposed" sub-alliance with Jim? Well, you saw how quickly that dissolved. Jim didn't even give Cochran a chance to explain before branding him a coward.

    Also, I don't care if you're a two year old or a "grown man", bullying is STILL bullying! Cochran received more than his fair share at Savaii - I wouldn't feel any allegiance to them either after that sort of treatment. Heck, Ozzy made the decision to be voted out and some of them were STILL dissing on Cochran for not "stepping up" to be voted out.

    Finally, I liked the way that Brandon stood up for Cochran.
    Thank you for saying this, it is exactly what I was thinking. No matter what he did Cochran's tribe treated him horribly and they said it to his face constantly. I mean really to see Keith set himself up as the more morally upright person yet instead of treating Cochran with some compassion or at least neutral politeness he did not. Then there is Jim, in his confessional's it is obvious he is not above being shady in his personal and professional dealings I am sure he would have done well on Wall St and yet he calls Cochran a coward. Why is Cochran a coward because he chose to control his fate instead of sitting around to let fate happen to him. If Cochran was so reprehensible they should have voted him off the last tribal council.

    As a bit of a side bar in a interview with Christine on another fan site she was asked if she would flipped tribes and she said she was actually keeping her options open as to what would be best for her.
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  3. #73
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I am totally lousy when it comes to stratagy so I won't go into that part of the discussion but there are some things I wanted to add.

    I don't think Cochran was "bullied." I think he was definitely treated unkindly and it was unnecessary.
    I don't think he deserves the name "Cockroach" for many reasons. I think he's trying his best, but he's very limited in physical ability. He's definitely doing himself harm by letting emotions take over. I, personally, reserve the name of Cockroach for someone who behaves in a disgusting way, like Russell Hantz.

    I know a lot of people didn't like Boston Rob but he knew it was a game and emotions didn't play any part in it, not did he get a god-complex like The Great And Powerful Oz, who's demeanor is starting to make me detest him. His elimination move was dumb but lucky for him it all worked out.
    What was the point of telling Christine his wild story since she hated her tribe? And he overplayed the whole thing in front of the other tribe.

    What bothered me most was Jeff Probst asking Ozzy at Redemtion Island, prior to the challenge, what his feelings were about being eliminated. Jeff knew all about the trick at the Tribal Council so why ask that? It seemed a little biased on Jeff's part to me. Also why were the whole tribes asked to this RI challenge? Yes, I know they were going to merge and that was their reason but to me, I smell a rat. It just seemed to orchestrated for my taste. They could have had the merge in any way they wanted like in previous seasons. Seems a little scripted to me. Just like how Jeff always asks questions at Tribal Council that really zero in on what all was happening in the tribe. I guess it's probably expected that someone would give Jeff the "insiders" info and what questions to ask. I just like to watch the show for the human interaction when life is tough and there's a huge prize at the end.
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  4. #74
    Crabby by nature Lucy van Pelt's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    At the official Survivor site, there is an "extra" video of Johnny C. being persuaded by Brandon and Sophie, but at the instigation of Coach (unbeknowst to Johnny C.), that they have a sub-alliance and will take him into the final four. That Rick, Brandon, and Edna are on the chopping block, and Johnny C. is leap-frogged above them. And he bought it. So there's another factor in his decision.

    That said, I pretty much agree with everything Sweetpea has posted (and she saved me the trouble, yay!) in a number of posts. I don't think Johnny C. was bullied. And ELYSE was very very nice to him, yet he conspired (with Jim) against her, and got her booted. He's emotional about how he's treated, but sees nothing wrong with how he treated her? Is this a game, where all's fair, or is it not? Why does HE get to have it both ways. IMO, he doesn't; thus, also IMO, he's a weasel. He is a smart guy, but still has little strength of mind. Hopefully, that's because he's young.

    I'm not a religious person, and in fact, I'm often annoyed by people who brandish their religion about and have to drag God and/or Jesus into every conversation. But I quite admired Dawn for HER strength of mind, and her convictions, and her attempts to persuade Johnny C. that what goes around comes around. Even if she did fail to convince him.

    I am sure I have knee-jerk reaction of distaste for a person like Johnny C. Not because he isn't handsome; not because he's intelligent; not because he's a clutz/unathletic or can't take pain. It's because he IS a clutz/unathletic/fearful of pain, that he panics and freezes in challenges, and still INSISTS on putting himself into a situation where that all weighs very heavily against him, and then still thinks he's entitled to stay. That it's somehow OWED to him rather than something he needs to earn. And he has not been very respectful of his teammates either; he just doesn't tell them what he thinks of them. That's NOT the same as being respectful.
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  5. #75
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    I never in a million years thought I would be arguing this side of things, but I still don't see 'bullying' in the behaviour toward Cochran. Yes, the team were jerks to him. They didn't respect his abilities (which he admitted were weak at the start) and they said so. Keith was a jerk. Good for Cochran for getting out someone who he considered an enemy (whether that's a personal thing or a game thing). But I am not ready to call him a mastermind or admire his move based on what I see as a purely emotional and short-sighted maneuver. I get he was running scared of the PROD, but I still think it was stupid in the long run, since I don't really see Coach's team splintering enough to take Cochran on board and I think he did have room to maneuver on his side, especially with the numbers advantage. Of course, MMV.
    I agree. I have nothing more to add.
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  6. #76
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy van Pelt View Post
    At the official Survivor site, there is an "extra" video of Johnny C. being persuaded by Brandon and Sophie, but at the instigation of Coach (unbeknowst to Johnny C.), that they have a sub-alliance and will take him into the final four. That Rick, Brandon, and Edna are on the chopping block, and Johnny C. is leap-frogged above them. And he bought it. So there's another factor in his decision.

    That said, I pretty much agree with everything Sweetpea has posted (and she saved me the trouble, yay!) in a number of posts. I don't think Johnny C. was bullied. And ELYSE was very very nice to him, yet he conspired (with Jim) against her, and got her booted. He's emotional about how he's treated, but sees nothing wrong with how he treated her? Is this a game, where all's fair, or is it not? Why does HE get to have it both ways. IMO, he doesn't; thus, also IMO, he's a weasel. He is a smart guy, but still has little strength of mind. Hopefully, that's because he's young.

    I'm not a religious person, and in fact, I'm often annoyed by people who brandish their religion about and have to drag God and/or Jesus into every conversation. But I quite admired Dawn for HER strength of mind, and her convictions, and her attempts to persuade Johnny C. that what goes around comes around. Even if she did fail to convince him.

    I am sure I have knee-jerk reaction of distaste for a person like Johnny C. Not because he isn't handsome; not because he's intelligent; not because he's a clutz/unathletic or can't take pain. It's because he IS a clutz/unathletic/fearful of pain, that he panics and freezes in challenges, and still INSISTS on putting himself into a situation where that all weighs very heavily against him, and then still thinks he's entitled to stay. That it's somehow OWED to him rather than something he needs to earn. And he has not been very respectful of his teammates either; he just doesn't tell them what he thinks of them. That's NOT the same as being respectful.
    So I guess Cochran is the exception to the majority of human beings who do not react emotionally to the way they are treated?
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  7. #77
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Doyu Gems Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata View Post
    So I guess Cochran is the exception to the majority of human beings who do not react emotionally to the way they are treated?
    Yeah, that.

    If Cochran had done the rock thing, and chosen the black rock, everyone would have been berating him for not taking a sure thing when he had the chance.
    Sample comments: Why didn't he flip? He could have changed the game! What a coward for not taking a chance. Why would he stick with Savaii?... they'll get rid of him the first chance they get. Really stupid of him to stick with Savaii.

    Cochran was definitely faced with a multitude of options here. He could have stuck with Savaii, hoped for the best with the rock pick and hoped he could make something happen with Jim and Dawn. But he knew that most of the time, tribes break down at the merge. Upolu could pagong Savaii, but chances are at some point a few of them are going to want a swing vote to knock off a few of their own. Cochran made himself that person by flipping. He just has to find a couple who are ready to take out Coach, or Albert, etc. His being weak is also now a huge benefit at the merge. Things are looking pretty good for him and Edna.

    There is only one major flaw to this game move for Cochran that I can see, and that is JURY. He just stacked the jury against himself. Perhaps he's hoping to argue that he made a game changing move, but the Savaiis... with perhaps the exception of Dawn, are going to be BITTER. Even if Cochran makes it to the final two or three, he's going to be hard pressed to argue a win. I guess he could also argue that he should have never made it past day one, and yet he's there, but I doubt they'll want to give him credit for it.

    All of that said, I'm happy Cochran did what he did, and Keith going to redemption was the result. I thought it was lovely to watch.

  8. #78
    Red Sox Nation Brooks's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkernomore View Post
    I think Cochran didn't want to put his shot at a million dollars on a game of chance.
    That's what he said. He's a devoted student to Survivor strategy. Losing from the wrong strategy was far more acceptable to him than losing from chance or failure to take action.

  9. #79
    Best Ever Pool Runner Angry Birds Champion, Rancho Ice Racer Champion pikachu's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I don't think Cockroach was bullied by his tribe. They kept prompting him to step up his game because his tribe needed to win challenges to avoid going to tribal council and he never did so I understood their frustration with him. I wouldn't call that bullying.

    If their treatment of Cockroach was considered to be bullying then I think Cockroach bullied Keith and Whitney into turning on their alliance and voting Elyse out. He was no meek little innocent thing like he's making himself out to be with the other tribe.

    And I'm not sure if Jim was calling Cockroach a coward because he flipped on his tribe or if it was because of the way he did it. He could have voted for Keith on the first round of votes instead of in the re-vote. I thought maybe Jim was calling him a coward for not making his move in the first round, making it seem like he changed his mind about his vote when really he planned to take Keith out all along.

    I wish Survivor wouldn't make it come down to chance (picking rocks) in the event of a tie. They should have a skills challenge to determine who goes home of the two nominated. Or have the two nominated pick a rock from a bag instead of everyone but the two nominated.
    Last edited by pikachu; 11-04-2011 at 09:15 AM.
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  10. #80
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    If people don't want to call it bullying call it browbeating because that is exactly what Savaii did. Cochran never had the option of simply walking away when his tribe was bullying/browbeating him, he had no where to go.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

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