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Thread: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #61
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom View Post
    I agree with you there. I think, unless something crazy happens, we will now see the Savaii tribe picked off one at a time. If so, the next 4 weeks may be a bit boring with Ozzy, Jim, Whitney and Dawn being voted out in whatever order Upolu decides. Then the real drama will start in the race to the end.
    I think you're right about Savaii getting picked off and how boring it will be. Cochran had a perfect opportunity to make a move that would give him great odds of making it to the final three (with his prior conspiracy buddies, Jim and Dawn), but he blew it big time. No one can predict how things would play out, but the probability of him getting to the finals would have been much greater had he stuck with his tribe.

    Cochran clearly wants to be viewed as a relevant, game-changing player (partially evidenced by his rather pathetic request for Jeff to call him Cochran). In his mad desire to be such a player, he destroyed his chances of winning.

    I feel rather sorry for him. He obviously has little self-esteem and lacks confidence and conviction. His neurotic ramblings remind me of Woody Allen, and I am not a fan of his.
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    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  2. #62
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by KatesMom View Post
    Rick. I agree with you - hilarious that we are how many weeks into this season and I still forget he is there! Wishful thinking though - unless something crazy happens, Upolu has a strong alliance. I actually see Coach and Sophie as the F2.
    I did! I forgot him completely until the challenge, and the sweat was dripping off his nose and hat!

  3. #63
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by AZChristian View Post
    I think I'd rather be low man on the totem pole of a larger group than part of the smaller group (if the rest of Upolu sticks to the plan and votes out all of Savaii first).
    And that is what is so confusing. Had Cochran been more savvy, SAVAII would have been the larger group. Cochran would still have been low man on their totem pole, but he had a built-in sub-alliance with Dawn and Jim that could have given him greater power.
    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  4. #64
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Mare View Post
    I did! I forgot him completely until the challenge, and the sweat was dripping off his nose and hat!
    Ha! That was kind of gross, wasn't it?!
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    "Most of us go through life with blinders on. Knowing only that little station to which we were born. But you madam, have had the... rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you." -- Andrew to Joanna in Overboard

  5. #65
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Having someone call you a coward and then another say you disgust them is not the way to win friends. Jim, besides being a bully, detests the Cockroach and so does Whitney and they just prove to us viewers and to Cochran that they have treated him like dirt and will continue to treat him like dirt. Keith did the same thing at the beginning of the show basically disrespecting everything Cochran was trying to say. Cochran is in a no win situation and I don't blame him for switching. Glad Keith is gone.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  6. #66
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    And that is what is so confusing. Had Cochran been more savvy, SAVAII would have been the larger group. Cochran would still have been low man on their totem pole, but he had a built-in sub-alliance with Dawn and Jim that could have given him greater power.
    This is what I think as well. He was mad at his treatment from his team (even though he certainly facilitated some of it IMO - not saying it's right but he's got to accept some responsibility for how they viewed him) and he got his revenge. But I don't think it was the smartest move he could have made and I don't think he will go down as a strategic mastermind like I think he's hoping he will.

    Personally I think Cochran is hoping to make the big moves and create a persona for himself so he'll be invited back to a future season.

    Personally, I didn't like Keith at all and I did get the BMOC vibe from him toward Cochran, so I'm glad he was voted out. BUT I can't see Cochran as some innocent victim, I'm afraid, and I think he brings a lot of his woes on himself with his paranoia and his annoying personality. Note, I'm not saying that bullying is a good thing ever, but this is a GROWN MAN who is playing a reality tv game. People don't like you? Welcome to a pretty big club!! I think I would have had more respect for Cochran if he had owned his betrayal and basically told his own team to suck it up and deal. Instead he reverts to his whiny "I'll explain later..." self and let's Brandon (of all people) suddenly become his protector. You're a grown man! This is a game!! What are they going to do? Take you around a bush and beat the crap out of you? Or will they just not like you some more? Ugh, deal with it and stop with the self-pity!
    Last edited by sweetpea; 11-03-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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  7. #67
    Reality Junkie jsciv's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    At first I thought it didn't make sense for Ozzy thinking that he should go to RI instead of Cockroach because they could have easily brought Christine into their tribe in place of Cockroach. Christine was ready to flip and hated Upolu. She was a sure ally, but in reality, Ozzy just wanted to earn his tribe's trust and loyalty back (after they rid of his closest ally) by doing the risky move. Practically telling them that he will lay his life out there for the tribe. More importantly, he wanted Cockroach to feel that he belongs and ensure his loyalty. Ozzy thought that by not sending him to RI and by giving the HII to him, Cockroach will never think of flipping. If they sent Cockroach to RI and won, surely he would flip. In effect, Ozzy had two motives, he was killing two birds with one stone. Unfortunately, it backfired. For Cockroach to play double agent for them would have been a great move but Upolu saw through the charade and the weasel became a double agent against his own tribe.
    It seems clear that we as viewers knew that Christine would flip far more than the tribes ever did. All Ozzy's group had to go on was the day one comment followed by her quick eviction. In the absence of more feedback (especially given the whole Machiavellian frame of mind they were in about trying to fool the other tribe) I can see them not trusting that she'd be theirs even though we viewers knew that she would be.

    Ozzy's acting did more harm than good for sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    I guess I missed the fact that Cockroach told Upolu that Savaii is voting for Rick but it seemed Rick didn't know because he looked surprised, otherwise, he would have asked for the HII.
    It's also possible that the girl Cochran was talking to didn't share that it would be Rick and that they have an alliance (or are thinking of one) that we have not seen on screen yet. Or that they just pulled some random "Rick reaction" shot from elsewhere in the tribal council. That particular reaction shot really doesn't mean much.

    Quote Originally Posted by jammyjoe View Post
    It's stupid of Cockroach to reveal all the information from his old tribe. He could have used the info he gathered from both tribes to his advantage. I really don't know what he's gained on this move of his except disgust and hate from the his former tribe while he just ranked even lower switching to the other tribe. He could have waited on the next TC to see how all this would play out. I think his mental and emotional immaturity showed in this recent episode. I also thought that they trusted him too much considering he's their 6th man. What Savaii should have done was to tell Cockroach that they are giving the HII to Whitney. This would then prompt him to tell Upolu which he did. But Ozzy should have turned around by giving the HII to Keith who is the obvious choice to vote off. This in turn would reveal Cockroach that he is not loyal to them.
    At this point in the season there's usually a lot that I feel like the producers are keeping behind their backs. Cochran has probably said in an interview by this point how far he hopes to go with each tribe, but we're not seeing it. That said, from what we see he knows that he's 6th on his tribe (unless Jim turns on Ozzy, but Jim's treatment of Cochran doesn't leave much room for trust if you're inside the game) and that he's 7th on Coach's tribe, but he's getting lots of warm fuzzies from them. He may think that he can rise higher in the other tribe (certainly we know that he can make a case for jumping over Edna; he spent enough time with them that he might have seen it too) than by staying.

    Either way, I don't blame Cochran for wanting to take the game into his own hands rather than trust the rock, since (as someone else said) if anyone on his team got dinged by the numbers he would likely have been next to go after that person, whereas this way he is still 7th at worst.
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  8. #68
    Organizing my sock drawer RBmumsie's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Well, I think Cochran did the right thing. His own tribe has been AWFUL towards him (except for Dawn). And, that "supposed" sub-alliance with Jim? Well, you saw how quickly that dissolved. Jim didn't even give Cochran a chance to explain before branding him a coward.

    Also, I don't care if you're a two year old or a "grown man", bullying is STILL bullying! Cochran received more than his fair share at Savaii - I wouldn't feel any allegiance to them either after that sort of treatment. Heck, Ozzy made the decision to be voted out and some of them were STILL dissing on Cochran for not "stepping up" to be voted out.

    Finally, I liked the way that Brandon stood up for Cochran.
    Well-Behaved Women Seldom Make History...Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

  9. #69
    FORT Regular lurkernomore's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I think Cochran didn't want to put his shot at a million dollars on a game of chance. It's easy for Ozzy to support the tie breaker when he's sitting there with immunity. Cochran did what he thought was best for his game. Can't fault him for that. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. If they stay with tribe lines at best Cochran guaranteed he'll be there until 7th.

  10. #70
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I never in a million years thought I would be arguing this side of things, but I still don't see 'bullying' in the behaviour toward Cochran. Yes, the team were jerks to him. They didn't respect his abilities (which he admitted were weak at the start) and they said so. Keith was a jerk. Good for Cochran for getting out someone who he considered an enemy (whether that's a personal thing or a game thing). But I am not ready to call him a mastermind or admire his move based on what I see as a purely emotional and short-sighted maneuver. I get he was running scared of the PROD, but I still think it was stupid in the long run, since I don't really see Coach's team splintering enough to take Cochran on board and I think he did have room to maneuver on his side, especially with the numbers advantage. Of course, MMV.
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