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Thread: Bobby Jon

  1. #261
    everything under the sun lopevian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cable101
    This was indeed the case, which puts him in the rare position of being eliminated with no votes against his name.

    That's what it was! I knew it was something he didn't get, and if he beams Jamie, he won't be getting it again. Votes! Thanks cable.
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  2. #262
    Retired! hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cable101
    I admit, I saw this coming; it's pops up every time the word "fair" is tossed around. I'm going to cut this debate short and simply say that it was not "fair." But really, Survivor isn't "fair," and I have no problem with that. I feel that Bobby Jon's departure was one of the less fair boots in the game, but I can understand that a game is not meant to be fair (especially one like Survivor). I take the stance that every boot has been deserved, and players that lost mainly due to a twist deserved to lose due to that twist. That doesn't change the fact that Bobby Jon leaving the game based solely on his fire-making skills is not very ejoyable to see, and quite an unfair turn of events.

    In short, BJ's departure = not fair.
    Survivor = not fair.
    And that's all there is to it.
    Unfair would mean that one person was given an edge over another, or that the game was fixed somehow. Both Bobby Jon and Stephenie had the task explained to them, and they performed the task. Stephenie won fair and square.

    If they had rigged up some way to keep Bobby Jon & Stephenie from losing the IC's so that they weren't forced to go to tribal council, that would have been unfair to the other remaining players. They didn't make them choose a purple rock; to me that shows they were considering that making it totally random wasn't as meaningful as completing a challenge. It was a fair contest, and Stephenie won.

    I don't see why just because you don't agree that no one else can debate that point.
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  3. #263
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cable101
    I admit, I saw this coming; it's pops up every time the word "fair" is tossed around. I'm going to cut this debate short and simply say that it was not "fair." But really, Survivor isn't "fair," and I have no problem with that. I feel that Bobby Jon's departure was one of the less fair boots in the game, but I can understand that a game is not meant to be fair (especially one like Survivor). I take the stance that every boot has been deserved, and players that lost mainly due to a twist deserved to lose due to that twist. That doesn't change the fact that Bobby Jon leaving the game based solely on his fire-making skills is not very ejoyable to see, and quite an unfair turn of events.

    In short, BJ's departure = not fair.
    Survivor = not fair.
    And that's all there is to it.

    Hi Cable ... I also lean towards thinking the firestarter challenge was a fair contest ... but I'm curious as to what you would have preferred and thought more fair. How would you have determined who got snuffed ?
    "The way to become boring is to say everything." Voltaire

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  4. #264
    Yee-haw Lonestar's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I think that BJ's temper can be tapped much easier than Jamie's. And since to me, Jamie is more calculating, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Jamie goad BJ from here on out. Try and rile him. Make him loose it.

    Come on BJ.......hang on to those Southern manners just a little while longer. I've always been told..."you give someone enough rope and they will eventually hang themself." Just back off and let nature take it's course.
    The stars at night...are big and bright

  5. #265
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettO
    Bobby John was making fire the whole time for his tribe so he should have been good at it. I couldn't believe he lost it.....must have been nerves.
    I believe that Bobby Jon was so used to making a more efficient and all-around better fire that he missed the point of the challenge. Stephenie concentrated on burning the rope and so she won; BJ concentrated on making a fire like he would back at camp, and so his didn't reach the height that Stephenie's did.
    Of course, fire-making involves numerous uncontrollable variable, so who's to say why Bobby Jon really lost that challenge?

    Quote Originally Posted by hepcat
    Unfair would mean that one person was given an edge over another, or that the game was fixed somehow. Both Bobby Jon and Stephenie had the task explained to them, and they performed the task. Stephenie won fair and square.
    And, in that sense, Bobby Jon's departure was fair. However, as I see it, Survivor has alwasy focused on playing a social game. Yes, there are other aspects that come into the equation, including wilderness survival skills like fire-making and challenge prowess. But ultimately, the vote comes down to everyone deciding who must leave the island. There should always be a chance to save yourself and convince the others that you don't deserve to go. There should always be the oppurtunity for the others that are voting to not vote for you. Your destiny in the game should be determined by a vote (which is affected by the other factors of the game). Now, Survivor is a game like any other, and so rules dictate what events occur and who wins and loses. The rules of Survivor stated that the person who lost the fire-making challenge would be going home, and that's understandable. However, that doesn't make Bobby Jon's loss fair. He had no oppurtunity to manipulate a vote; Stephenie was forced to vote for him, and he was forced to vote for Stephenie. His fate came down to one challenge, and that, to me, seems to go against the game of Survivor as a whole. It happened because the rules said so, but that doesn't mean it was a completely fair boot. BJ didn't have the chance that everyone else had to turn things around using whatever social skills he could muster. Paschal's purple rock boot still involved a vote; Pappy had every opputunity to convince Kathy to change sides or to switch his own vote to Neleh. He went into the tiebreaker knowing he stood a chance to go home. I certainly prefer the fire-making tiebreaker over the purple rock, but only when it comes down to a true tiebreaker situation, which means that a vote is involved.
    Ulong should never have gone to tribal council with two people. It was at that point that Ulong should have dissolved into Koror, not after BJ's departure. Bobby Jon never had a single vote against his name, and he lost because Stephenie built a fire better than him; he had absolutely no chance to play the social game and create a vote to keep himself around. That is unfair, because that is not what Survivor is about (in my eyes).

    Quote Originally Posted by hepcat
    I don't see why just because you don't agree that no one else can debate that point.
    I miscommunicated my point. I've gotten into frequent debates that have boiled down to the point being made that everything is fair in love and war. It's simply a different interpretation of the word "fair," I suppose, and so I was trying to prevent that same debate from occuring again. You can either view BJ's boot as fair and, likewise, Survivor as fair. Or you can take the other path and view BJ's boot as unfair and, likewise, Survivor as unfair. I lean towards the latter, but that's really personal preference.

  6. #266
    everything under the sun lopevian's Avatar
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    It was an unprecedented TC, it was unique and weird to see a "final two" on day twenty one, and it was a fair and square challenge from my view. Cable, aside from the obvious choice of both Steph & BJ being absorbed into Koror...what would you have had the show do with them at that final Ulong tribal?
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  7. #267
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopevian
    what would you have had the show do with them at that final Ulong tribal?
    If my primary goal was to keep to the heart of the show, then Ulong would have never attended that final tribal council. As I see it, the plan for Palau was that there would be no real merge. The tribes would battle it out until one was dissolved into the other. This was why the tribes started out together on one beach for the first day; the members of the jury would have experience with a final 2 member from either tribe (the same thing was done in Thailand when Erin would have had no interaction with Chuay Gahn final 2 had the tribes not lived together for a period of time). Because Ulong never ended up winning an immunity challenge, the whole no-merge twist was somewhat ruined. The producers should have cut their losses as soon as Ulong got down to two people, however, instead of waiting until Stephenie was the only remaining Ulong left. There should never be tribal councils with two people (unless it involves a jury).

    If I had to decide what to do with an Ulong tribe consisiting of two members, then a fire-making challenge is as good a solution as any. Still, that situation should have never arisen in the first place. Bobby Jon is the only person to be "voted out" with no opputunity to swing the vote, and will always seem unfair to me.

  8. #268
    JR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cable101
    I take the stance that every boot has been deserved, and players that lost mainly due to a twist deserved to lose due to that twist. That doesn't change the fact that Bobby Jon leaving the game based solely on his fire-making skills is not very ejoyable to see, and quite an unfair turn of events.
    So, because you don't like it, that makes it "unfair".

    It was a twist. Both had the same rules and materials, only one could win. Physical strength and athletic ability didn't mean anything there, so neither had an advantage. If they had been disolved into the other tribe, they would've been the first two boots. I don't know how it could be any more fair.

  9. #269
    FORT god cable101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR.
    So, because you don't like it, that makes it "unfair".
    No, but congrats on managing to take a portion of my post out of context to support such a claim. As I have said, the primary focus of Survivor is the social game. Wilderness survival, challenge strength, and other aspects all factor into the equation, but, ultimately, the game comes down to a vote, a true measure of one's social skills. Each individual has the opputunity to manipulate the vote so that they are not the one booted. Bobby Jon did not have that opputunity, and that is why his departure is unfair. If challenge strength was the sole determinant of who wins a million dollars each season, then many of our past winners would never have made it as far as they did. Every one of them instead made it to the end based on their ability to manipulate the vote to their will. Bobby Jon was denied the chance to do that, and I categorize that as unfair.

  10. #270
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    I see both sides.

    For example, Brendon seems not to have done anything at all to get the boot. But when the teams merged, and he knew his safety was on the line, he didn't even attempt any kind of social interaction that could have helped him stay. That was his fatal error.

    Where Stephanie and Bobby Jon are concerned, they really didn't have a chance outside of the fire competition. But still, it was a competition, and he lost. All is fair in the rules of Survivor.

    Both Brendan and Bobby Jon made fatal mistakes.

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