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Thread: Does Mark Burnett Manipulate Survivor?

  1. #41
    hubba bubba Gher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn
    What an assumption. Rob, Lex, and Rupert had pretty even shots at winning, but maybe you should consider that double immunity was for your precious Rob and Amber? Of all the women, who expected the 50-year-old to kick ass? Be careful about what you assume.
    Why not? Kathy may be 50 years old but she kicked ass in Marquesas and won individual challenges by beating players who were almost half her age, including males.

    Or maybe you think that double immunity was specially designed for your precious Shii Ann to win?
    Rob: "I was trying to appeal to their emotions. I was trying to make them see I was affected as well. To be honest with you, those were tears of sorrow, because I think I realized that I wasn’t going to win "

  2. #42
    I've been a bad, bad girl Siryn's Avatar
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    I'm not making any assumption about the double immunity. But of all the women, I would have not bet on Kathy to win it - I would have pegged Alicia or Amber the lifeguard to have done better. Doesn't mean that Kathy isn't good - clearly she taught us to not assume anything about her physical strength. But the odds were not in her favor on that one.

    That said, claiming that the game was being tilted toward the underdogs there is not a valid assumption.
    I me some Marty Casey. Go Marty!

  3. #43
    hubba bubba Gher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn
    That said, claiming that the game was being tilted toward the underdogs there is not a valid assumption.
    ... in your opinion.

    Kathy won that challenge, and Lex almost won it, only "losing by a hair," (as he put it.)

    It's a valid one in mine.
    Rob: "I was trying to appeal to their emotions. I was trying to make them see I was affected as well. To be honest with you, those were tears of sorrow, because I think I realized that I wasn’t going to win "

  4. #44
    I've been a bad, bad girl Siryn's Avatar
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    It's easy to look at it retrospectively to make that assumption, but prospectively is a different matter.
    I me some Marty Casey. Go Marty!

  5. #45
    hubba bubba Gher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn
    It's easy to look at it retrospectively to make that assumption, but prospectively is a different matter.
    What makes you think I was looking at it retrospectively?
    Rob: "I was trying to appeal to their emotions. I was trying to make them see I was affected as well. To be honest with you, those were tears of sorrow, because I think I realized that I wasn’t going to win "

  6. #46
    I've been a bad, bad girl Siryn's Avatar
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    Because I don't see any analysis of why you think that Kathy and Lex were a lock to win those challenges. There is nothing substantial there that supports the claim that Burnett tilted the game toward them specifically - especially considering the discussion of Amber's swimming advantage in this thread. But whatever, I'm :deadhorse now.
    I me some Marty Casey. Go Marty!

  7. #47
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    With all due respect, I think that your argument is being manipulated to suit your point of view.

    At the time of the tribal switch, Mogo Mogo was still in with a chance to level it 5-4, not being significantly disadvantageous for them. The next immunity, being a trivia type, could have gone either way. In addition, the Rob/Amber alliance wasn't completely solidified until the actual split, so why would that be specifically targeted? And even if it were specifically staged such that Amber would switch sides, there was always the possibility that the Mogo Mogans will win, sending Chapera to tribal council, which wouldn't have had that much of an effect. I honestly think the switch was planned beforehand, to shock the survivors expecting a merge.

  8. #48
    hubba bubba Gher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn
    Because I don't see any analysis of why you think that Kathy and Lex were a lock to win those challenges. There is nothing substantial there that supports the claim that Burnett tilted the game toward them specifically - especially considering the discussion of Amber's swimming advantage in this thread. But whatever, I'm :deadhorse now.
    I don't know about a 'lock' but I think they both had a darn good chance of winning that challenge.

    They both had the most to lose too if they didn't - this was a great motivating factor - and don't underestimate desperation (it drove skinny half-starved Shii Ann to win the rope and bucket challenge, and almost win the fire and water challenge).

    Both won quite a high number of individual challenges in their own seasons.

    Alicia was a poor swimmer. Amber may have been a lifeguard - so what? She was weak (like Neleh, another lifeguard).

    If both Kathy and Lex (both proactive players) had won that challenge, the dynamics of the game could have been irreversibly altered, and the viewers may not have been subjected to a boring pagonging (with Romber dominating strategy unchallenged) as did happen when only one of them won (Kathy won hers and Lex lost to Rob).

    Shii Ann would have gone in their place if both had won the double immunity necklaces, but her departure would have been no great loss to the game.
    Rob: "I was trying to appeal to their emotions. I was trying to make them see I was affected as well. To be honest with you, those were tears of sorrow, because I think I realized that I wasn’t going to win "

  9. #49
    hubba bubba Gher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayolip
    With all due respect, I think that your argument is being manipulated to suit your point of view.
    Nope, I'm basing my argument on mostly what I observed, not only what I imagined happened.
    At the time of the tribal switch, Mogo Mogo was still in with a chance to level it 5-4, not being significantly disadvantageous for them. The next immunity, being a trivia type, could have gone either way.
    If Chapera had lost, it would have forced Rob's hand - he would have had to break up one of his alliances and that would have shaken the complacent Chaperas up, making the game more exciting.
    In addition, the Rob/Amber alliance wasn't completely solidified until the actual split, so why would that be specifically targeted?
    I disagree. The Rob/Amber alliance was pretty strong by that point, and it was pretty much out there. Long before the switch, posters were clamouring for them to be broken up as it was obvious they had a tight bond.
    And even if it were specifically staged such that Amber would switch sides, there was always the possibility that the Mogo Mogans will win, sending Chapera to tribal council, which wouldn't have had that much of an effect.
    Again I have to disagree. Any weakening of Chapera and relative strengthening of Mogo Mogo would decrease the chances of a pagonging and enliven the game more.
    I honestly think the switch was planned beforehand, to shock the survivors expecting a merge.
    I don't. And I don't think many were 'shocked' when it didn't happen.
    Rob: "I was trying to appeal to their emotions. I was trying to make them see I was affected as well. To be honest with you, those were tears of sorrow, because I think I realized that I wasn’t going to win "

  10. #50
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    I think they had to give double immunity in that swimming challenge, or it was basically going to a man.
    I imagine if you compared their times, Lex and Rob would have both easily beaten Kathy.
    Like the reward challenge Rupert won where they had to move the heavy treasure chest, the swimming challenge was a man's challenge to win if everyone had been competing together.
    I think MB's, manipulation of the game already in progress is being over stated.
    It was purely coincidence that Amber was the only one switched when they had to draw new buffs.

    I think the timing of the double immunity challenge was set before the game even started, just my opinion, but how much later in the game could you possibly have had that challenge?
    It would be more unfair,imo, to have a double immunity when there were even fewer people left in the game.

    I think they can amend the order of the challenges when the game is in progress, but it is my feeling that they didn't in this case.
    None of us actually know, we are all going by our impression of the events so there is really no right or wrong here.
    "That's Numberwang!"

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