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Thread: The troubling "women as sheep" phenomenon

  1. #21
    FORT Fogey veejer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoecho
    By the way, Sandra's "love-Lil" comment at TC was also a strategic, move to pave a path and make Lil think she's a targeted threat.
    I think that "love-Lill" comment at TC was paving the way for the possibility of the two of them to be in F3 with anyone else. Sandra wants Lill to think that Lill can beat her, so on the off chance of Lill winning immunity (Remember S3-Kim J), Lill will choose her to go to F2.

    Sandra will then confess to the jury that it was all strategy, and Lill has already been voted out once, so "Vote for me to win."

  2. #22
    FORT Fan Fossil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notasheep
    I have grown to become increasingly disgusted with the female survivor contestants who 1) blindly follow the men who create and usually lead the alliance, 2) do not enter the contest with the mentality that they are playing a game that requires deception to win, 3) seem to give up rather than use strategy to improve their position.
    The results indicate that a sheep strategy is very powerful in this game. The "strong" or "strategic" players usually play themselves right out of the game. See ya, Rupert!

    A sheep doesn't backstab. A sheep just follows a new leader. This allows more strategic flexibility.

    Matt and Butch (S6) were sheep.

    Even in his jury speech, Matt emphasized his integrity, indicating that he just did not get it, even then.

    That said, sheep are boring. Darrah and Lil appear to be world class sheep. If the popularity of the show wanes, the most likely cause will be sheep domination.

  3. #23
    FORT Fogey veejer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie
    Fascinating thread. I thought back to see if I could recall any good, truly strategic female players, and I came up with T-Bird (Teresa Cooper from S3). I think she played a very good strategic game, but she ultimately was doomed by being in an alliance with one of the worst Survivor players ever (Kim Powers) AND by getting caught in the Brandon-Frank crossfire. I also think Kelly Goldsmith was a good strategic player, too, but I attribute more strategic play to her than they really showed on the series.
    T-Bird also could not get Kim J to form an all girl alliance with her and Kim P at F6. At that point they were still using the "prior votes count against you" form of tiebreaker, none of the girls had any prior votes, and both Big Tom and Lex had prior votes, so the girls could have won any tiebreaker, unless they foolishly voted for Ethan with no votes.

    However Kim J was happy to be promised fourth behind the three guys, instead of going for at least one more spot to third. As "luck" would have it, she went on to win(?) immunities when she needed to, and finished second to Ethan.

    I was not a happy camper after that episode. T-Bird is one of my all-time Survivor favorites. She worked strategy extremely hard, but was foiled by another female.

  4. #24
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    Good point on the failed opportunity to take out the three boys, veejer. I'd forgotten about that. Kim Johnson was a pretty worthless Survivor, too. They're batting .000 on Survivor Kims.

    I was pulling for T-Bird to be in the All-Star edition, but it doesn't sound as if she will be there.

    Speaking of T-Bird, wasn't she behind the rumored "all-or-nothing" proposal to Playboy? I read somewhere that she spearheaded a "Women of Africa" proposal whereby Lindsay, KimP, Kelly, and herself would all appear in the magazine. They probably demanded too much $$$, though, or maybe they insisted on Leatherneck Kim, as well.
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

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    Not a Newbie timtimes's Avatar
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    Darrah lately.....

    Has been getting more airtime. I think her lack of airtime in the preceding episodes may be because she's about to get MAJOR airtime. You've got to remember that the whole show is 'in the can' before any editing takes place. So we got to see a lot of Rupert early because they knew he would be gone. Just a theory I have, but I wonder if any of the dedicated diehard FORT regulars have seen a pattern in the past where an eventual winner was afforded less airtime early, only to have it made up later (because MB knew they'd be around to show)

    Enjoy.

  6. #26
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  7. #27
    Premium Member croftchrism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timtimes
    Has been getting more airtime. I think her lack of airtime in the preceding episodes may be because she's about to get MAJOR airtime. You've got to remember that the whole show is 'in the can' before any editing takes place. So we got to see a lot of Rupert early because they knew he would be gone. Just a theory I have, but I wonder if any of the dedicated diehard FORT regulars have seen a pattern in the past where an eventual winner was afforded less airtime early, only to have it made up later (because MB knew they'd be around to show)

    Enjoy.
    I think it is pretty natural that Darrah is getting more airtime now. Even though she doesn't really say anything, there are not that many people left. If they want to have a show that does not revolve around Jon talking about how great he is, then they need to show everyone, even the sheep
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  8. #28
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    Originally Posted by echoecho

    By the way, Sandra's "love-Lil" comment at TC was also a strategic, move to pave a path and make Lil think she's a targeted threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by veejer
    I think that "love-Lill" comment at TC was paving the way for the possibility of the two of them to be in F3 with anyone else. Sandra wants Lill to think that Lill can beat her, so on the off chance of Lill winning immunity (Remember S3-Kim J), Lill will choose her to go to F2.

    Sandra will then confess to the jury that it was all strategy, and Lill has already been voted out once, so "Vote for me to win."
    Yep ! Definitely a multi-faceted strategic comment by Sandra. For example:

    - Immediately disarms Lil and gets her "pooh-poohing" the "compliment"

    - Makes her think Sandra is "nice".
    to say so.

    - Increases Lil's paranoia thinking she may be a threat to the guys and they'll dump her.

    - Lil was at reward with Jon and Darrah, ( Sandra may/may not know Lil had "hurt feelings" ). Lil is attached to Burton ( Sandra may/may not no Lil's increasing insecurity in that set-up) and this works either way even if it only injects Sandra into Lil's favorable scope.

    - Also gets Lil off point and thinking in another direction and about something besides her "young men".

    - Primes Lil for some men-are-beasts girl talk.

    Yep, Sandra knew regardless of the outcome of that TC, that a pro-Lil remark would have legs.

    Further, I'm not so sure Sandra didn't know Christa was going, but as in Rupert's departure, just threw a vote, but at Burton this time. In any kind of vote counting tie-breaker at a TC, I think Sandra is the only one without any. Right ?

    And ... so far, it would seem to Sandra that votes from RyanO, Rupert, Christa and maybe T ( since one vote at T's boot was left unread ) would all be in her favor if she were F2 v. Lil or Jon.

    Thus ... Sandra is NOT playing a sheep-to-the-slaughter game.
    Last edited by echoecho; 12-08-2003 at 05:55 PM.

  9. #29
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    I thought Sandra was making a sneaky effort to round up some possible votes for Lill during the TC in which she planned to vote for her. By indicating that she thought nobody could beat her, maybe she could convince some wafflers (of which there were none) to help vote her off that night.
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

    Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie
    I thought Sandra was making a sneaky effort to round up some possible votes for Lill during the TC in which she planned to vote for her. By indicating that she thought nobody could beat her, maybe she could convince some wafflers (of which there were none) to help vote her off that night.
    Ooooh ... you're right and I'm sleeping :

    Also, my bad about the thrown vote in the previous ... Sandra voted Lil not Burton this time, correct ?

    But that's still all strategic on Sandra's part. Kind of win-win because Christa will deduct that Sandra didn't vote against her, and she can deceive Lil by saying the only reason she did it was because she's a threat and the guys think so too ? I guess Sandra could also pretend to be befuddled like Lil and wring her hands and whine and say she just made a mistake. :

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