12/16 Survivor 25 Season Finale Show Discussion

[tinderbox]

I'm amazed at how this season turned into "The Lisa Show" and last night's finale and live show weren't any different. Geez.... I was totally turned off by it. My family and I have watched every season and have never seen anything even close to this before.

Wish Malcolm would have won (...or at least the fan favorite vote) but I'm not at all surprised Denise was victorious. Good for her!!!

[WalaLang]

I was rooting for Denise or Malcolm in the final two so I was happy that Denise won. I have a feeling that Malcolm is one of the returnees in the next Survivor which by the way is still in the Philippines. Interesting they picked same country and pretty much same location though I think it is financially motivated that they did that. Which suits me just fine because I am from the PI and amazed at how beautiful Caramoan is.

[Miss Scarlet]

I'm happy that Denise won. Of the 3, she did earn it more. As to the whole counselor thing, of course she used her counselling knowledge, skills & manner in the game. Just like everyone else uses their own skills from their real life to whatever advantage they can get in the game. If you're a builder, you build. If you're a fisherman, you fish. If you're a swimmer, you swim. Etc.

Am I the only one who noticed (95% sure) Malcom in the previews for Fans vs Favorites? It also explains his appearance at the reunion show, which I thought looked a little haggard, in comparison to all the others.

[jsciv]

I was talking about the Jeff Probst Show, he had the F5 on. I thought when I saw Denise, that she had won the million, it was a gut feeling and my daughter in law was with me when I said it.Nobody mentioned a thing, it was the feeling I got that's all

By that point the F3 probably knew that it was likely to be Denise. They had had the chance to watch all of the shows and if most of us were saying "whichever of Malcolm and Denise make it to the F3 win" it's very likely that Denise watching the show back (and all of the included confessionals and bits she didn't see while on the island) knew she was in the best seat. She wouldn't have KNOWN that she won because the producers do keep that secret, but if you knew the F3 while watching the last part of the season, you knew who was almost certain to win. So yeah, I believe her body language could've given it away on the Probst show.

[Fanny Mare]

By that point the F3 probably knew that it was likely to be Denise. They had had the chance to watch all of the shows and if most of us were saying "whichever of Malcolm and Denise make it to the F3 win" it's very likely that Denise watching the show back (and all of the included confessionals and bits she didn't see while on the island) knew she was in the best seat. She wouldn't have KNOWN that she won because the producers do keep that secret, but if you knew the F3 while watching the last part of the season, you knew who was almost certain to win. So yeah, I believe her body language could've given it away on the Probst show.

Maybe she had a feeling she was going to win, and even if she didn't know it, her body language portrayed it

Am I the only one who noticed (95% sure) Malcom in the previews for Fans vs Favorites? It also explains his appearance at the reunion show, which I thought looked a little haggard, in comparison to all the others.

I didn't see him! oh I do hope he is on it!!

[jammyjoe]

I can't believe Malcolm lost to Lisa for Fan Favorite! I bet the Pope ordered all Christians to vote for Lisa. Malcolm was still pissed at himself for losing. I don't get his question to Denise. It was he who broke their alliance. Denise offered to have Lisa and her tie for votes and battle it out with fire building but he declined it. Obviously, Denise knew that she was going so she had no option but to go after him because there was no way that Skupin and Lisa will vote for each other. Malcolm made a crucial mistake (as he said by taking a page in the Penner book for not accepting Denise's offer) in that he should have gone after Lisa or Skupin and then just let the pieces fall by themselves as they go on a tie-breaker. Denise would have stuck with him all the way to F3.

As for Abi, when Denise apologized to her, Denise got her vote. The Tandang tribe (except for RC) still had animosity against Lisa and Skupin for being outwitted, outplayed and outlasted so they all gave their votes to Denise. I also don't buy that Malcolm will lose to Denise if he made it F3. Abi, Pete, Artis, Penner, and Jeff will vote for him. Lisa and Skupin will vote for each other. Carter will vote for him if Skupin is not on F3. Only RC is the big question mark. So i say, he would at least get 5 votes.

I don't know why Probst didn't allow the F3 to voice their last words after the jury has addressed them. That's always been the case wasn't it?

Anyway, the goal is to make to F3 and accepting Denise's offer would have assured Malcolm a F3 as it would have been between Denise and Lisa (or Skupin) going home. Malcolm overplayed it thinking that he was safe having a great advantage in the IC and thinking that Lisa/Skupin will take him F3 without considering that he could be a bigger threat than Denise, thus the possibility of changing their minds. I see that he wanted Denise out all along because he didn't mind not giving her the II when she asked for it and didn't even come to Denise to work together in ousting either Lisa or Skupin. He thought he could not win against Denise in F3 and has more chance against Skupin and Lisa who pissed off a lot of people in the jury.

[jsciv]

Anyway, the goal is to make to F3 and accepting Denise's offer would have assured Malcolm a F3 as it would have been between Denise and Lisa (or Skupin) going home. Malcolm overplayed it thinking that he was safe having a great advantage in the IC and thinking that Lisa/Skupin will take him F3 without considering that he could be a bigger threat than Denise, thus the possibility of changing their minds. I see that he wanted Denise out all along because he didn't mind not giving her the II when she asked for it and didn't even come to Denise to work together in ousting either Lisa or Skupin. He thought he could not win against Denise in F3 and has more chance against Skupin and Lisa who pissed off a lot of people in the jury.

The goal is to win, not just make F3, and he guessed that he'd be second place to Denise. He did the right thing for himself to distance himself from her. Honestly, SHE did the right thing by severing with him, too, because while the reunion show straw-poll still gave the money to Denise, anything could have happened at FTC and both Malcolm and Denise stood FAR better odds if the other one was sitting in the jury.

Poor Lisa and Skupin, though. Their F3 decision was basically "who are we giving $1M to?" Everyone who called out Malcolm and Denise as "win if F3" was totally right.

[JLuvs]

Having watched every episode of the Survivor I must say this was my favorite final 4 and favorite winner to date. I know that Denise rubbed quite a few people here the wrong way, but for me her matter of fact dialogue and approach at the final tribal and throughout the game was refreshing. I do wish Malcolm had won fan favorite, but that is a minor shadow in a great season.

[judibug]

FTC used to be statements to the jury from the F2 or F3, then jury questions, then the F2/3 got to make final remarks. I remember in particular Boston Rob being kind of shocked to find out during the questioning that he was so hated, and in his final remarks he apologized. Anyway, they haven't done that for a couple of seasons and I miss it, too. Instead of letting a jury member have the final say (like Penner last night) it would be more fair for the F2/3 to speak last.

[jammyjoe]

The goal is to win, not just make F3, and he guessed that he'd be second place to Denise. He did the right thing for himself to distance himself from her. Honestly, SHE did the right thing by severing with him, too, because while the reunion show straw-poll still gave the money to Denise, anything could have happened at FTC and both Malcolm and Denise stood FAR better odds if the other one was sitting in the jury.

Poor Lisa and Skupin, though. Their F3 decision was basically "who are we giving $1M to?" Everyone who called out Malcolm and Denise as "win if F3" was totally right.

Well in order to win, you have to get to F3 first. Then game on. Like he said himself, he overplayed his hand. By staying with Lisa and Skupin, his F3 chances is 50/50 but by staying with Denise his F3 chance is 100%. He also could have just lied to Denise and went along with her plan to get rid of Lisa. Then Denise wouldn't have to scramble to get rid of him. Then turnaround and back stab her by voting her out instead.

Lisa/Skupin wanted to keep Denise more than Malcolm because they thought they have a better chance against Denise than Malcolm. Otherwise, they would have chosen Malcolm (a no brainer) who was kind enough to choose them to have more time with their family.