12/16 Survivor 25 Season Finale Show Discussion

[Shoepie]

I was surprised that after Penner outed Lisa, she didn't point out that Skupin had recognized her on day 1 and told her right then that he'd keep it secret, which he did. Or, why she didn't point out that Penner has a not shoo shabby resume in tv and films himself, something he never revealed.

I agree.

It is fine not to expose your background. Many more castaways have lied or kept silent than not. We have seen Doctors, Lawyers, athletes and other very successful people omit this information. Your past is not relevant to playing this game.

[Fanny Mare]

I was surprised that after Penner outed Lisa, she didn't point out that Skupin had recognized her on day 1 and told her right then that he'd keep it secret, which he did. Or, why she didn't point out that Penner has a not shoo shabby resume in tv and films himself, something he never revealed.

I just don't see why it mattered, to the jury, or to the game

[Shoepie]

Yep, that's what I was hoping would come out. And he just turned it around like, oh, it doesn't matter what I did. lol I still like him but he sure came off bitter. I kind of expected it, too, with Lisa, at least, as he'd really been a great sounding board and friend for her. I'm not sure it was made clear, though, that she absolutely wanted to go to the F4 with Penner, told him that, went to him and he said he couldn't commit. So, she made a deal elsewhere.

I thought she really did want to go against Penner and Skupin. She couldn't stay with Pete et all, so her next best bet was going up against two returnees.

[Fanny Mare]

I also didn't buy, that if Malcolm and Denise were in the F3. Denise still wins.I think Malcolm would have won.Jmho

[judibug]

Great season, great observations on FORT as usual. Some random thoughts:

Penner probably made WAY more money in TV and films than Lisa ever did. He was Danny, the guy who fired Fran Fine which set up the premise for The Nanny. He got run over by Kramer on Seinfeld. He was on Rude Awakening, CSI, and tons of other stuff. So I thought it was kind of hypocritical of him to "out" Lisa as if she had so much money she didn't deserve a win. As others have pointed out, he probably did it more for effect than anything. He does like to showboat. That said, I love him! He really made the season for me. It was unfortunate that they showed a clip of him with obviously less hair right before showing him live.

I would guess that winning Fan Favorite meant more to Lisa than winning the million would have. She was looking for answers to life's big questions, one of which seemed to be "does anyone like me for me?" She mentioned many times that she had been acting since she was a child, both on the stage and in her real life as well. It must have been a wonderful confirmation to have America give her that positive answer she needed. Her Sally Field moment.

RC's laugh -- OMG. And her fake little smile and tilt of the head . . . blehhh.

I just don't get Carter. At all. He seems dumb as a rock with zero personality. Jeff tried to justify their choice of him as a contestant, but I don't see it.

I hope Malcolm is back for Fans v. Favorites, and I hope he gets some kind of lucrative deal out of his exposure on the program. What a sweetheart. I would love to hear that he goes into teaching, because we need more male teachers and role models and I think he would be wonderful at it.

Do we know what the final vote was? They usually show it, but if they did I missed it.

[pikachu]

According to Wikipedia,Skupin got one vote, Lisa got one vote, everyone else voted for Denise...even Abi, which totally floored me! Abi's made no secret of how much she detests Denise. Then again, Abi pretty much hates everyone but she had to vote for one of the final three. Maybe she did eenie-meenie-miny-moe to decide whose name to write down, or voted for whoever she thought RC would least likely want to win.

[Tilden]

I just don't see why it mattered, to the jury, or to the game

Ultimately, I don't think it really did matter. And as others have pointed out, it's not uncommon for contestants to keep their pasts (or even presents) to themselves on reality shows. Jeff Kent, the retired major league baseball player this season, didn't mention he'd played in a World Series either, did he? It's not like she even denied she'd been on The Facts of Life to the two people who did recognize her--and if they chose to keep it to themselves, that choice is on them. Honestly, I don't think it was just loyalty to Lisa that caused them to do that either; if she'd been seen as a bigger threat in the game, they'd probably have shared that information. But she wasn't, and they didn't--and Penner turned down the offer from Skupin/Lisa to be part of a final four alliance because he thought he had a better shot elsewhere or just didn't want to form an alliance that soon. That was his choice too. Lisa even told Skupin she trusted Penner more than Malcolm, which is why he was given that offer.

I get that maybe it was just showboating on his part to "out" her, as were his comments to Denise and Skupin, though I thought all of his comments were a bit over-the-top. Denise didn't do all the work in getting those three to the final three. Skupin won individual immunity challenges, and Lisa played more of a social/strategic game. It's not like they were completely dead weight hauled through the game by Denise, particularly since they only changed to Denise's side from Malcolm's in the final days of the game. He made it sound like they were the equivalent of the dumb girls who allowed themselves to be played by Rob for the whole game, to the extent that one of them even did as he said in the final TC, which was beyond stupid.

I guess I would have respected Penner more--and I did like him in the game itself--if he'd done what Jeff Kent did: admit that he was ticked to have been eliminated but that he knew how to deal with that (and as a professional athlete, Kent would have to, because nobody wins all the time), and just asked some pointed questions instead of giving a speech that was meant to make them all feel small and make him supposedly more memorable. In fact, I'd prefer it if everyone had to ask at least one question, even if he/she wanted to give a speech too. I want to see the finalists have to talk themselves into votes, if that's possible. I don't really care who's feeling bitter or why, mostly because we all likely know already why they might be upset. I want to hear something I might not know and see the finalists try to play a strategic game at the end, when that's all they have left. Plus, this season, we had three people who really could talk in the final three, and I wanted to hear what they had to say.

[Tilden]

I also didn't buy, that if Malcolm and Denise were in the F3. Denise still wins.I think Malcolm would have won.Jmho

If Denise would have won rather than Malcolm, I wonder if there's some reason we're not privy too, even if it was a bitter jury reason like jealousy. Otherwise, I don't see any reason why Malcolm wouldn't have at least made it a close vote.

[jucamer]

I agree Tilden - I liked Penner during the game but lost some respect for him during the FTC. I expected something like that from Jeff Kent being he was so bitter & aloof at Ponderosa. Penner didn't need to do that

[Fanny Mare]

If Denise would have won rather than Malcolm, I wonder if there's some reason we're not privy too, even if it was a bitter jury reason like jealousy. Otherwise, I don't see any reason why Malcolm wouldn't have at least made it a close vote.

I don't know Tilden.This jury seemed bitter to me, and somewhat aloof during the FTC. I think they voted against Lisa and Penner, not for Denise. I also think a lot was said at The Ponderosa that we weren't privy to, and the others simply followed Penners train of thought. He bugged me last night, and I liked him all season. ( sigh)