11/28 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

[pikachu]

Or perhaps Denice thought it was high time someone tell Abi the truth just as Abi always likes to claim as her own right. I don't think we'll all agree on anything but we all do seem to agree on beating dead horses!

We've got another one already? Seems like we just barely put the one in the Amazing Race forum out to pasture. My whipping arm is getting tired.

[GabbyG]

My four comments:



3. I think Jeff should've called Abi out on saying there were two clauses to the challenge - it was a flat out lie. If she wanted to use a way to get power after that challenge had she lost - she needed to say that she had an immunity idol and would use it to get out one of the alliances strongest players.

.

I've been reading all the discussion on whether or not Jeff should or shouldn't call out Abi on the lie she told. I wonder if Abi did read the entire clue and then added on the part about the clauses. If she read the clue, I think Jeff would have been wrong to say she was lying. I just hope she goes next week and RC meets her at the door of the hut they have to share ;-).

[Alexxxx]

I don't think Abi lied at TC. She said her paper had two paragraphs (or maybe two sentences) and she was only going to read the last part, which she did. I'm pretty sure the clue DID have two sentences, and the last sentence said she advanced to the final leg of the challenge. I think the first sentence said something about 'this is an advantage in the next immunity challenge' or something similar. That's splitting a pretty fine hair, I know, but technically not a lie.

She did lie to Malcolm when she told him she had another idol, unless she found one and it wasn't aired, but I don't think so.

[redsox girl]

We've got another one already? Seems like we just barely put the one in the Amazing Race forum out to pasture. My whipping arm is getting tired.

I'm officially calling it. The horse is not only dead, it's been taken to the glue factory, buried, turned into dog food and stuffed into a chair. I`m also certain I'm going to wake up one day soon to find that horses head in my bed for expressing empathy for an unpopular contestant.

[holly71]

I've been reading all the discussion on whether or not Jeff should or shouldn't call out Abi on the lie she told. I wonder if Abi did read the entire clue and then added on the part about the clauses. If she read the clue, I think Jeff would have been wrong to say she was lying. I just hope she goes next week and RC meets her at the door of the hut they have to share ;-).

Don't wish that on poor RC!

[kev89]

Will say about both him and Supkin - BOTH wanted to stay on the show when they were evacuated because they love this game win lose or draw. But BOTH couldn't stay because the injuries were truly life-threatening (Russell's was bad but he suffered dehydration more than other ailments). I remember Supkin in particular refused to eat in the hospital because he didn't want to be disqualified from Australia. I think it took Mark Burnett and Probst to get him to see reason.

Will say one thing - had Penner NOT been eliminated before the jury rounds in heroes/villains season and was injured during THAT time - you better believe he'd been like James and lugging that IV with him to the Jury.

Yeah, Skupin's another fighter, even Russell Swan wanted to stay on in Samoa. I didn't know that Skupin refused to eat in the hospital, but it doesn't surprise me. Skupin and Penner were the returning players I was most excited about seeing play again in any season with returning players, I've believed really ever since the first All Stars season that Skupin deserved to come back. I was a bit disapointed with him this season at first when he seemed to do nothing but get hurt, and was upset when he betrayed RC (though I think he and Lisa may have been closer than he and RC the whole game, we just didn't see it) but he's really not playing a bad game. I'd be okay with him winning...him coming back and winning it all after 12 years would actually be a pretty cool story. And absolutely, no one would be able to stop Penner from making it to the jury if he had made it that far.

And unlike Abi, Kelly did all these wins WITHOUT an advantage. Will say though the only reason she probably won that final three challenge due to dumb luck Rudy briefly removed his hand from the totem while they rotated and she caught it. I think I did see it happen ONE time with her too but Rudy didn't notice. (BTW - I liked both of them and felt BOTH should've won over Rich. Kelly must be thinking "Well - at least I would've been smart with my winnings had I won and don't owe as much as I won in back taxes and AM NOT in jail")

Oh yeah, I forgot about that challenge...loved Rudy's final tribal speech "I've got nothing to say to these two, I just want to say I feel like an idiot for something I did yesterday" I was pulling for Rudy the whole time, and when he was voted out, I was pulling for Kelly. I've got to give Rich credit though, he is a genius...at least at playing Survivor lol.

[kev89]

You probably don't want to be associated with me, though, because I don't dislike Abi. I feel like her defense attorney at this point. Girlfriend is piling up some serious billing hours. If she wins any money Im demanding a cut.

Well, I do find Lisa's complaining annoying as well, so two out of three's not bad

[sweetpea]

The thing that bothers me about people like Abi, is that when you let their behaviour slide because saying something brings too much grief and confrontation back at you, they somehow internalize that as saying their behaviour is acceptable. It's not. Abi needs to understand that the way she treats others is rude and sometimes "telling it like it is" and being "brutally honest" doesn't excuse you from being a b*****.

I think Denise was just fed up when she confronted Abi. They are both grown ups, and it would make sense, therefore, that they should be able to discuss conflict like grown ups. Abi does not know how to do that. Denise tried to explain, Abi continued to talk over her and act like a brat, and Denise said "I'm done."

I don't blame her in the slightest.

I don't blame Jeff for not outing Abi. She was gutsy to try the fake out with the clue to a HII, and it made the game a little more interesting as a result. I don't like her, but I recognize that her back was against the wall and she was hustling for her life. But personally I think she oversold it, with the posturing and the ripping the clue into little bits. I don't really think they bought it.

[jammyjoe]

You certainly have a point, and I agree with you that what Denise said to Abi was not necessary, but for different reasons.
Abi was annoying and dismissive of the other tribemates when she had power. When that power was lost, her pride prevented her from playing the game and she continued to be abrasive to those around her. They all knew that this is Abi, this is how she acts, and she is not likely to change.
Denise's advice was borne of frustration with living with her, but as a therapist, she should have known that Abi was not the type of person to change or listen to anything anyone was going to say. It's as my husband says, "if someone is an idiot, and you punch the idiot in the head to make yourself feel better... it's a waste of time. Cause next day? They'll still be an idiot." That's truth. Same with Abi. Nothing anyone is going to say to her at the age of 32 on a reality show is going to change Abi. She's a social dimwit, and tomorrow, she'll be a social dimwit.
So, Denise's words were pointless. They already had Abi on the ropes by voting out Artis, and were in the process of eliminating Pete. Why give her any fodder to gain sympathy with anyone? It appears to have worked on herself, and maybe Jeff Probst? But it's pointless to say anything... far better to just ignore her.

Very well said! And I don't know why some people, after watching the show up to now still feels that Abi didn't deserve what she got. It was through her own actions/behavior/social ineptitude that caused antagonism against her so there really is no one to blame but herself. What really irks everyone is that she can't see that even though her tribesmates try to explain it to her, they can't, because she would shutdown and not listen like a brat or maybe she's just plain socially ignorant (she couldn't even respond or react to what Penner said to her). Whatever it is, she's not getting any sympathy from anyone with her self-pity and self-entitlement because she thinks she's beyond everyone else and that they are all stupid compared to her.

[Jaceegirl]

I sure didn't remember Abi winning individual immunity before so I looked back through the Survivor pool thread. I always post who won immunity. This week was the first time Abi won individual immunity. The only other times she's won immunity was when her tribe won, and most of the time, she sat out those challenges.

I am totally out of sequence with what is being discussed now, but have had trouble with the site and after crashing a few times I am hoping that this time it works. I am a few pages behind and sorry for not staying with the current discussion.

I finally had a chance to catch up on reading this thread more thoroughly. Too much reality tv going on now and I just quickly read through some comments the first time I glanced. This really has turned into a long discussion for one episode. I must say I have learned a lot while reading through the comments as I knew nothing about Jeff's personal life so never knew that he was dating Julie a previous player and now recently married.

One thing I marvel about many of you is remembering so many things about previous seasons and players. I have watched every season of Survivor and they are all starting to blend in now. Only certain seasons and players stick in my mind. As an example, I don't remember Penner even though this has been his third time playing. Even when I saw him appear on the screen nothing came back to me - not even those beautiful blue eyes of his. They were the first thing I noticed, and yet I wonder why I have no memory of him from before? I do know that I will remember him from now on because I feel like the rest of you regarding him. He is one class act and was such an asset to this season. He is the type of person that I would love to hear talk for as long as he wanted because he just has this way about him that makes you want to listen. I know he made a couple of mistakes that cost him in the end, and I look forward to hearing him talk at the F3 TC. If they show him at the Ponderosa that will be a bonus.

I remember someone mentioning Survivor being different these days (not necessarily those exact words), but I thought the same thing. There were no bad food items at the reward challenge and I don't remember there being so many get aways that they have now. Someone can tell me if they had them in the very beginning of Survivor because I really don't remember. It just seems that Survivor today is not as hard as it was in the beginning. It seemed like by the end people left all skin and bones compared to now. As someone mentioned earlier - the cars - I had forgotten about that as it was such a long time since we had seen that.

Thank you for checking about Abi winning a prior immunity because my first thought was I don't remember her even playing in any of them as I just have this vision of Abi sitting on the bench each week. I believe Jeff mentioned her sitting out again during one of the episodes.

I also noticed your Avatar and wanted to congratulate you on winning the DWTS All Stars Pool. That was my original intent and just got a little carried away.