11/28 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

[redsox girl]

Really? Someone criticized Denise for shushing Abi when Denise was talking and Abi interrupted, and called Denise rude? Abi talks over EVERYBODY! That's why RC was never able to clue her in about the "clue mystery"... Abi wouldn't let her get a word in edgewise. If Denise talked over her, well, it's time she had a taste of her own medicine.

I agree, a televised tribal council is probably not the place to offer therapeutic insights and get them accepted, but I think last week Denise was just trying to respond sincerely to Abi's questions about why no one liked her. At this point I think she's just sick of her. Not nice of Jeff to always make Denise the goat though--ask a few others how much they like Abi, not just Denise.

Penner was Carter's ally, and I fear now that Penner is gone Carter may be doomed. At some point Malcolm at least is going to notice all those immunity necklaces and get him out. Very nice that Carter chose food for the group--you'd think Lisa would have let him have the next one just as a reward for that.

I know LIsa is trying to say that she doesn't like breaking promises and lying to her friends as the game requires, but somehow she's starting to come off as if she's the ONLY one for whom that is difficult, that she's uniquely troubled by it. A little too much patting herself on the back for her saintliness in a backhanded way. And putting others down by implication.

Penner...they didn't make a mistake for THEM, it was just one for you. And you made the mistake last week when you didn't team up with Lisa and Skulpin when you had the chance.

I am the someone who dared to critisize Denise.

[Fanny Mare]

I am the someone who dared to critisize Denise.

After reading what you posted, I sort of agreed with some of it. Its also nice to have another opinion, that differs from everyone else, including my own

[wannasee]

I see where you are coming from and though I don't agree with your perception, I respect how you view the whole situation. For me, I can easily deal with a personality like Abi. Regardless, I dont like to see anyone brought to tears. Theres no need to do it. None. Thats how I feel. If that makes people think Im obvlivious or ignorant to what she is or isn`t doing, That doesnt bother me because it isnt true. I feel what I feel. Thanks for hearing me out.

I'm with Fanny Mare, I appreciate your thoughts and I agree about not having to make someone cry. I guess IRL someone just seems the bigger person to me if they ignore someone spiteful; to give into it no matter how frustrated just kinda ruins the whole thing, even if the one who snaps was justified. That said...I viewed the tribal you mentioned much differently but know that every person's perspective, experience and so many other things shape how they perceive the same thing. It's why we're not always so keen on eyewitnesses in my business. ;-)

Couple things I was thinking earlier - I loved Lisa bringing up the phrase about "throwing pearls before swine." I also keep thinking back to Australia, I know I watched, it's been a long time but...I wasn't much of a fan of Skupin before his departure. I did think it was horrible what happened to him and that softened my view to him coming back (no one should have to leave for that type of reason). But even though I can't remember anything specific, I for some reason did not have him in my favorites that season.

[Uncle David]

In defense of last week's TC, the other survivors had put up with Abi's bullying for weeks without confrontation. If they'd wanted to be 'mean' they had plenty of time to do it before last week's TC. Also, we should remember that Jeff just kept picking at the wound. He seemed intent on getting people to confront Abi on the horrible way in which she treated others.

I just rewatched last week's TC, and Denise was not mean. She was simply talking strategy. She answered with the same brutal honesty of which Abi is such a big fan, but she was in no way malicious about it.

No one 'attacked' Abi. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the truth hurts.

[Daisoo]

Wow, this thread for this one episode, is really long

Anyways, I have a bad habit of judging before I watching an episode (guilty! ) but I actually didn't have a problem of Abi lying about her note, because it is her note, she bought it. And besides, I don't think Jeff could have called her out, he didn't see the note, he doesn't know what it contains. The only problem is, that she came out too strong with it, she was too obvious about saying she has two written messages.

[NCLurker]

Now, thats what I find annoying!

I think everyone agrees that Lisa voicing her struggle with conflicted emotions is getting old. However, I think Lisa is so nice to everyone it makes it easier to deal with this flaw. This flaw isn't an in the face thing 24/7. With Abi, I think she's getting this edit because all they had to edit was this side of her. My bet is that she hasn't given them anything else. I'd take Lisa any day over Abi. Abi doesn't sulk and brood quietly. Even her silences are loud because they contain so much nasty attitude! And I think the only reason Abi cried was because she was ticked off that people dared to speak to and of her in such a way. I typically feel bad when people cry because I sometimes cry at times that I would rather not and tears often send the wrong message, but with Abi, while I can't say I was unmoved by the tears, I didn't feel that anyone was mean or did anything wrong. Don't treat people like crap and then expect to be treated like a princess from those same individuals.

I didn't say it was against any rules for Jeff not to out her. I just said I wanted him to. I confess that I would have been cheering ANY of the other players left for doing that, I just think Abi (in this game) is vile.

[pikachu]

Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure someone will ) but this is not the 1st time Abi has won immunity, the others should have thought about that.

I sure didn't remember Abi winning individual immunity before so I looked back through the Survivor pool thread. I always post who won immunity. This week was the first time Abi won individual immunity. The only other times she's won immunity was when her tribe won, and most of the time, she sat out those challenges.

[Brooks]

I don't think Jeff could have called her out, he didn't see the note, he doesn't know what it contains.

He handed her the note. Of course he knows what was in it. He may even have composed it. Likely was part of the decision as to what it would say. It was a very specific advantage and he needed to know what that was in order to manage the challenge in the way it was intended. The mistake may have been in letting Abi announce it.

What I wonder, and may be unanswerable, is how production intended the note to be played. Abi correctly explained the advantage, but then she added to it, in a way that didn't really have anything to do with that challenge. Was there ever an anticipation that she might go beyond, or would a correction only have come with respect to the advantage for the specific challenge?

[AZChristian]

He handed her the note. Of course he knows what was in it. He may even have composed it. Likely was part of the decision as to what it would say. It was a very specific advantage and he needed to know what that was in order to manage the challenge in the way it was intended. The mistake may have been in letting Abi announce it.

What I wonder, and may be unanswerable, is how production intended the note to be played. Abi correctly explained the advantage, but then she added to it, in a way that didn't really have anything to do with that challenge. Was there ever an anticipation that she might go beyond, or would a correction only have come with respect to the advantage for the specific challenge?

Completely agree. He's one of the producers of the show. He absolutely knew what the note said.

[Fanny Mare]

He handed her the note. Of course he knows what was in it. He may even have composed it. Likely was part of the decision as to what it would say. It was a very specific advantage and he needed to know what that was in order to manage the challenge in the way it was intended. The mistake may have been in letting Abi announce it.

What I wonder, and may be unanswerable, is how production intended the note to be played. Abi correctly explained the advantage, but then she added to it, in a way that didn't really have anything to do with that challenge. Was there ever an anticipation that she might go beyond, or would a correction only have come with respect to the advantage for the specific challenge?

If Jeff called everyone out on the lies he knew, it would ruin the game. He asks questions at TC, and things are said .But to ask him to call Abi a liar is wrong. If this had been Denise, we wouldnt want him to have done that. I say Jeff stays out of it. I still think Abi will cling to her story she told Malcolm, that the note implied where another HI was.