12/14 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

[Tilden]

From my knowledge of churches, "community" churches are generally non-affiliated to any denomination. That would be my guess here... I just couldn't find my information on the church itself. I also don't know if Coach has any seminary training... from the article above, it sounds more like he has survivor and kayak trip training.

If anyone else could find out anything more about his church and training, I'd be interested to know that, as well.

I was curious about Coach's education, because I always find it a little strange when people just declare themselves to be ministers without having gotten some kind of degree that would indicate they had the training for the job. If you want to be a coach for a high school, you have to have some kind of certification/education. For most jobs, you do. You can't just call yourself a plumber or an electrician or a professor, so why should you be able to just declare yourself a pastor? Of course, I have the same problem with chefs--some of them seem entirely self-taught while others have a lot of formal training, but there seems to be no clear delineation between what makes someone a chef and what makes someone else just a cook.

I also must have read through the original article too quickly. You're right that most churches with community in their names aren't affiliated with any particular denomination. Of course, if Coach's church is supposedly Bible-based, I find his behavior even more unsavory, because the Bible certainly says a lot about how wrong it is to lie, and he's done a lot of that. It also doesn't exactly favor people who make a big show of their religious beliefs or who are zeroed in on a monetary prize to the exclusion of their beliefs. If he's basing his religious beliefs on a strict interpretation of the Bible, then he's violating a lot of what he supposedly believes. Or else he just missed all the uncomplimentary references Jesus makes to money, like that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.

As screwed up as Brandon often seems, I think he's at least more sincere in his beliefs than Coach is. I mean, I think some of his beliefs, like that Mikala was somehow a Jezebel, are pretty nutty, but he did seem to be trying to do what he thought he should do, given his religious beliefs, even if what he did and said often got in the way of his own game. At this point, I'd rather have even Brandon win than Coach. I know lying and manipulating are supposed to be part of the game, but there's something just wrong about claiming on the one hand to be deeply religious and then acting in ways that completely contradict those beliefs, not to mention using those beliefs to manipulate others who seem to hold them much more seriously. I don't have a problem with contestants who lie, manipulate etc. and admit to it. I might not always like them, but they don't make me cringe nearly as much as contestants who claim they're playing with honor and integrity when they're not. I guess it's the same reason I always preferred Rhett Butler to Scarlett O'Hara. He never claimed to be anything other than what he was, while she expected to behave like a bitch and be treated like a lady.

Oh, yeah, and after watching this season and last season, I think they really, really need to reconsider the idea of ever having just two experienced players on with all newbies again. It just doesn't work very well, except for confirmed fans of the returning players. I'd also just as soon they got rid of Redemption Island and got back to showing more of what goes on in camp. I think we miss out on too much of the social game when they have to split the focus between two types of competitions in two different places. I miss the more interesting luxury competitions too, where we got to see more of the country and the people who live there.

[AZChristian]

In California, pretty much anyone who has computer access can become a licensed minister, with no education or studying required. To quote an article in ehow:

"Ordinary people become ministers every day. The reason may be as complex as a belief in a calling by a higher power to serve, or as simple as a request to perform a friends wedding. The process of becoming a minister no longer requires years of seminary study and certification. While ministers at major churches must still adhere to these requirements, you can become a legally ordained minister in the state of California over the internet, which gives you the power to perform weddings, baptisms, and funerals."

[Tilden]

Oh, I know you can become a minister over the internet and perform marriages etc., but Coach is leading a church. Most people who do that do it so they can perform a marriage for friends or family members, don't they? And most of them aren't trying to claim they're leading a Bible-based, born again life and ignoring the strict interpretation of the Bible they claim to believe whenever it suits them.

[PWS]

In some ways Coach reminds me of that used car salesman who won in one of the earlier seasons. Someone who's never been invited back, in part I'm sure because he was so sleazy that the audience was revolted. But he at least was pretty honest (to the viewer) about what was going on.

[sweetpea]

I remember him. Brian Hedik or something? He was a cold fish, very calculating and oily. I don't think anyone liked him, but he sure ran that season.

[Dragonlady]

Tilden, I agree with your assesment of Coach. I dislike his ways just like you do. I think the main thing is that he is not a candidate for such a contest. If you're a minister and most likely preach about honesty, morals and values then you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you need to lie and cheat to get far in the game. I don't see how God's laws and commandments play any role in this game.
I have no problem with any of them behaving that way, even ol' Albert, who was shown last week to not be very good at it. I laugh everytime someone on the show talks about honesty, loyalty, etc. They don't come into play in this game and to expect it is to be ignorant and just shows who should be participating and who shouldn't.

[Shoepie]

Coach either really believes what he spouts or it is a strategy to maintain control. It doesn't matter to me. It is just a TV game show which requires lying and manipulation not unlike the board game Risk.

[sweetpea]

Normally it doesn't bother me also (again, fan of BRob) but for some reason Coach's self-proclaimed morality, his "I'm determined to play this game with honour and integrity" juxtaposed with his blatant lying and manipulating others using religion, well, it bugs me. At least Russell (the toad) owned his evil play.

Also, to be honest, the grandstanding with praying etc. really bugs as well. I know my Mom, who has watched this show since the first season and who loves it, is quite upset because she feels it is showing Christianity in a bad light. Whether that can be blamed on people like Coach or on the editors, who knows. Personally, I don't see Brandon as a bad example of faith. It does come across as naive but definitely honest. In fact, his outright show of faith and his attempt at playing with honour in giving up his immunity necklace to his alliance-mate (stupid game move though it was) really showed Coach's subsequent "I prayed about it and I'm going to backstab you because God told me to" look that much more pathetic in my eyes, at least. And in the jury's eyes too, I'd bet.

[luvlady345]

I agree Sweetpea, I hope Coach doesn't get a vote I don't care who wins as long as it's not Coach....He is a hypocrite who preys on the weak minded and use religion as his weapon.....I was never a big fan of Coach but this season just cemented in my mind why I was never a fan of his, his delusion of grandeur is a bit much imo....

[Photobabe]

If he didn't at least partially believe it, why did he actually get down on his knees and pray... twice? "The same name kept repeating over and over..." He can lie to Brandon all he wants, but why lie to the viewer?

Ahhh, but he probably wasn't really lying. He wanted Brandon out next. His mind had been made up. So, he prayed. But the answer he got didn't come from God, the answer came from his own mind. He is delusional and thinks God talks directly to him regarding trivial matters.

For those here who pray, try it. Make up your mind about something. Have no doubts about your decision. Now, ask God what you should do. The answer will be what you have already decided to do, because you have free will and God generally does not interfere with that. His answer to your prayer is "you already made your decision".

Brandon isn't smart enough to figure that out.