11/9 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

[Tribal Speak]

I think it's possible Whitney's tears were genuine. She was genuinely p*ssed at Cochrane and yes, I thought her comments to him after TC were the most harsh and the most hurtful, and I really wonder if none of these people have ever watched the show before - even if you feel like punching someone in the face, don't go off on them and lose a vote!!! In comparison, Ozzy was pretty civil, IMO.

BUT I also think Whitney (who I don't care about at all) genuinely felt frustrated and hurt at being given the label of 'terrible person' by Brandon and the rest of his tribe. The funny thing is, every single person has flaws. Brandon's treatment of Mikayla was just as bad as Whitney's treatment of Cochran. Why does he get to sit on the 'good' side and she gets to sit on the 'bad' side?? Because whoever has the majority is in the right? This isn't a new thing, we've all seen it before, but sometimes the self-righteousness at TC gets to be a bit much to handle. Also, as Spockwhat said above, the blatant cheering for Dawn at the IC was exactly the kind of behaviour that Brandon seems to love to speak out against, but I guess if they do it, it's ok, but if someone else does it's not?

That said, we didn't see Whitney attempt any kind of inroad to the other tribe. She seemed to merely sit around and act upset, which doesn't bode well for getting further in the game. I am so tired of these people playing with little to no strategy and all emotions!! Get off your butt and start strategizing! At least try! Ugh.

I wonder if some of the players might not want to raise their hands at TC and ask Jeff for a 'do over' with other people on another season? All the fun of a good, sneaky game of Survivor has devolved into a "you have to play with honour or you are not worthy" game of Survivor. At some point, as Maybaybie said, the loyalty is going to go out the window and the 'family' is going to have to turn on itself. I can't wait!!

Jim shot himself in his own foot, and I was laughing as he went to join his three friends at RI. It was funny when he said "I thought we were going to be the F3!" as he sat down. Ha ha ha ha ha....

Love it!

[spockwhat]

I don't think Brandon meant "excluded" per se, but perhaps meant right after the merge and also when Savaii seemed to have the edge due to the double immunity. Brandon may have seen it all as Cochran "including" them (Upolu) ... while the rest of Savaii excluded them ? Brandon always tries to sound intelligent and one of the reasons his TC talk is frequently included is because he has an apparent cognizant deficit and most of what he says is odd. For example, Brandon said what Dawn said at TC about the eating was contradictory to what she said at the challenge, and it absolutely was not.

As an aside, this season they are really trying to show some contrasts in personalities and also the way the repeaters are playing the game this time around.

I think in a way it was. She said at the challenge that she was going to stay in as long as possible so they could eat (Brandon took this as sincere.) At tribal she said if she were in their shoes she would have never sat out the challenge. On one hand, she says it's fine to eat, go ahead, and then she says it's not for people in that position. So it's on the road to contradictory.

I tire of contestants saying, "I would have done this if I was in their position, I would have done that..." I feel like it makes the person lose some credibility. Brandon bullied Mikayla... his tribe 'allowed' it. I'm glad they are nice with Cochran, but it does feel like a lie.
And Dawn can say she wouldn't have eaten at that immunity, but with seven people strong and no chance of getting voted out? Well, I think she would have eaten. lol

[MHcarrollton]

I have not paid attention to many seasons as they really get stale, but has anyone ever won for flipping sides at the merge. This is the dumbest move that I think anyone can make. You have to look at the fact that the jury is going to be made up of a huge number of people from the tribe you just flipped from. Being is that one move, the flip, causes all them to lose their chance I highly doubt too many of them will ever give you their vote. Cochran is a useless boring contestant. He seems so planted and coached to me that it is terrible. These seasons all start off good, but than we end up in this place all the time where one team goes one after the other, and than some floater wins. Like Jim or not personally, he was playing the game, and to get voted off simply because he was on the side against the flipper is such a stupid reason to go.

I also am sick of the contestants complaining that they hate the way the tribes treat them because of their lack of physicality in challenges. While I agree that they need to make the challenges less physical, right now this is the way the game is set-up. If you are not physically agile, and you do not want to be voted off or called out for it, than do not go on the show period.

Once again at merge, I am just reading what happens versus watching because it is so not interesting to watch a tribe reduced to going one after another as if they can not think past tribe lines.

[TripleGemini]

Jim shot himself in his own foot, and I was laughing as he went to join his three friends at RI. It was funny when he said "I thought we were going to be the F3!" as he sat down. Ha ha ha ha ha....

Well, wishes sometimes come true...they *are* the F3 at RI ;-)

[sweetpea]

I think in a way it was. She said at the challenge that she was going to stay in as long as possible so they could eat (Brandon took this as sincere.) At tribal she said if she were in their shoes she would have never sat out the challenge. On one hand, she says it's fine to eat, go ahead, and then she says it's not for people in that position. So it's on the road to contradictory.

I tire of contestants saying, "I would have done this if I was in their position, I would have done that..." I feel like it makes the person lose some credibility. Brandon bullied Mikayla... his tribe 'allowed' it. I'm glad they are nice with Cochran, but it does feel like a lie.
And Dawn can say she wouldn't have eaten at that immunity, but with seven people strong and no chance of getting voted out? Well, I think she would have eaten. lol

I really hate it when one group of people sits at TC acting smug and self-righteous, forgetting, as you said, that they too have been guilty of less-than-stellar behaviour, both Brandon for his treatment of Mikayla and the others for letting it happen and not doing anything about it. I didn't even care for Mikayla that much but it sucked to see her game completely ruined because of the rantings of an emotionally stunted kid and the ire of a "coach" who didn't appreciate her not letting him coach her, even though he didn't hit a blessed target either. It just ruins the show for me when everyone gets all high and mighty and moral with the "honour and integrity" card.

This goes for Dawn as well. Her interactions with them during the challenge just made me cringe. Better to say nothing at all than to try to blatantly suck up like she did. I could tell Coach didn't buy it for a moment. Then to turn around and say the opposite at TC and THEN when Brandon goes off, to apologize profusely for pretty much everything...ugh. I wish someone would call that little freak on things at TC.

And has there been any indication that the other tribe knows he's Russell's kin? Are they saving that little tidbit until the FTC as a way to drop a bomb and influence voting?? I think it's pretty interesting his tribe is sheltering that info and I have to believe it's not for Brandon's benefit but their own. I am desperate to believe that someone on his tribe is plotting SOME kind of a move...PLEASE

[PWS]

I think it's possible Whitney's tears were genuine. She was genuinely p*ssed at Cochrane and yes, I thought her comments to him after TC were the most harsh and the most hurtful, and I really wonder if none of these people have ever watched the show before - even if you feel like punching someone in the face, don't go off on them and lose a vote!!! In comparison, Ozzy was pretty civil, IMO.

BUT I also think Whitney (who I don't care about at all) genuinely felt frustrated and hurt at being given the label of 'terrible person' by Brandon and the rest of his tribe. The funny thing is, every single person has flaws. Brandon's treatment of Mikayla was just as bad as Whitney's treatment of Cochran. Why does he get to sit on the 'good' side and she gets to sit on the 'bad' side?? Because whoever has the majority is in the right? This isn't a new thing, we've all seen it before, but sometimes the self-righteousness at TC gets to be a bit much to handle. Also, as Spockwhat said above, the blatant cheering for Dawn at the IC was exactly the kind of behaviour that Brandon seems to love to speak out against, but I guess if they do it, it's ok, but if someone else does it's not?

That said, we didn't see Whitney attempt any kind of inroad to the other tribe. She seemed to merely sit around and act upset, which doesn't bode well for getting further in the game. I am so tired of these people playing with little to no strategy and all emotions!! Get off your butt and start strategizing! At least try! Ugh.

I wonder if some of the players might not want to raise their hands at TC and ask Jeff for a 'do over' with other people on another season? All the fun of a good, sneaky game of Survivor has devolved into a "you have to play with honour or you are not worthy" game of Survivor. At some point, as Maybaybie said, the loyalty is going to go out the window and the 'family' is going to have to turn on itself. I can't wait!!

Jim shot himself in his own foot, and I was laughing as he went to join his three friends at RI. It was funny when he said "I thought we were going to be the F3!" as he sat down. Ha ha ha ha ha....

That is hysterical, and I missed him saying that--thanks!

Re Cochran---yes, he's playing the jester, maybe even enjoying himself, but believe me he knows where he stands...and he knows his best hope is to be a desirable F3 person. Plus no one is going to want to vote him off before the major physical threats. I think he's going to hope for F3 and then to argue that look how far he's come, always been the bottom of the heap, no physical threat.... He took the abilities he had and used them well. It's the same thing he's done in the rest of his life---he's a Harvard Law student---that isn't all just grades and LSATs--he's always been a nerd and socially dumped on by the "football players"--he's learned how to work it to his advantage. It may not be possible for Cochran, or someone like Cochran, to win, but he's giving it a good shot.
On the other hand, even a small person with no great athletic skills can be an asset to his tribe...remember Yaoman? and without being so despised by them.
On some level Cochran's best hope is that there are very few members of his former team on the jury...maybe Dawn and Ozzy (who may respect game play), and that his current gang will be so hurt by their "betrayal" by a "family" member that they'll vote for Cochran out of spite.

[Brooks]

Cochran's best hope is that there are very few members of his former team on the jury...maybe Dawn and Ozzy (who may respect game play), and that his current gang will be so hurt by their "betrayal" by a "family" member that they'll vote for Cochran out of spite.

But if F3 is Cochran plus two from Coach's tribe, doesn't that make a majority of the jury from Cochran's old tribe? At least if all the discards from RI end up on the jury? So worst case for Cochran is Ozzy, Dawn, Whitney, Jim and Keith, making up a majority of a jury of nine??

[march]

I just wonder why that alliance died. Did Jim suddenly turn on Cochran or was it a one-time only arrangement? Was there ever a conversation between them where either one tried to keep the alliance strong? We never saw it, did we?

They know when to bite their tongues.

I wondered what happened to that alliance as well. Because at the time Jim had mentioned taking out Ozzy at some point also. Something must have happened that they didn't show us because Jim was one of the ones Cochrane mentioned he wanted voted out when the Upolo tribe asked him.

One the other Yes that is exactly why they were able to get Cochrane to flip and keep him voting with them after that first vote. They know when to smile, be nice and keep their mouths shut unlike Savaii.

[Bearcata]

That is hysterical, and I missed him saying that--thanks!

Re Cochran---yes, he's playing the jester, maybe even enjoying himself, but believe me he knows where he stands...and he knows his best hope is to be a desirable F3 person. Plus no one is going to want to vote him off before the major physical threats. I think he's going to hope for F3 and then to argue that look how far he's come, always been the bottom of the heap, no physical threat.... He took the abilities he had and used them well. It's the same thing he's done in the rest of his life---he's a Harvard Law student---that isn't all just grades and LSATs--he's always been a nerd and socially dumped on by the "football players"--he's learned how to work it to his advantage. It may not be possible for Cochran, or someone like Cochran, to win, but he's giving it a good shot.
On the other hand, even a small person with no great athletic skills can be an asset to his tribe...remember Yaoman? and without being so despised by them.
On some level Cochran's best hope is that there are very few members of his former team on the jury...maybe Dawn and Ozzy (who may respect game play), and that his current gang will be so hurt by their "betrayal" by a "family" member that they'll vote for Cochran out of spite.

Yaoman, had physical skills, he had the all around package. He really would have survived on his own if on the island by himself.

[SugarMama]

Sandra is an excellent example of someone without physical strength who went far - in fact she won twice. I never really liked her, but you can't argue with success