11/9 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

[Maybaybie]

I may be in the minority here, but I think Cochran did the right thing. I am a big fan of Survivor (but would never want to be on it...{{{shudder}}}), so in Cochran's case he just didn't want his fate decided by a rock. I can understand that. I realize the chances of him drawing the wrong rock were slim, but there was still that chance. Even if he ended up being the next to go, he would have had 3 more days and would have been voted out, not kicked out because of a rock. And I suppose he does have a good chance of going to the final 2 (or 3) as someone mentioned last night because everyone will want to sit next to him on the jury. I can't wait until there is only Coach's team left and they have to start voting each other out- then it will get ugly. Loyalty and honor will go right on out the window then, unless Coach convinces them that the only right thing to do would be for Jeff to have them all draw rocks at every tribal council so they can remain loyal and play the game with honor. I suspect there are some cutthroats on his team that want to know what they got themselves into with this loyalty junk and can't wait to actually start playing Survivor the way it should be played- with manipulating, sneaking, plotting, and blindsiding. Can't wait!

[spockwhat]

Cochran would have been better served to let the rocks decide; he was not a target at that TC and he would be one of the last booted because he is not a physical threat. I saw this coming and I have not "studied" this game for 11 years! He sealed his fate when he defected, next out after Savaii is gone. Fine with me. I agreed with his tribe when they told him how many times they saved him from elimination.

It is probable that Cochran would have been better served picking the rocks, however, I think he simply did what his heart told him to do at that point. It's an interesting season of emotional decisions, some which annoy me, and some which I totally understand even if they aren't great game moves.

I agree with you except for the bolded sentence... everytime Cochran was 'saved', it was because another contestant had some other motive. Jim 'saved' Cochran because he wanted to get rid of Elise. The main purpose was to get rid of Elise, the secondary was to hopefully make Cochran his pawn. Ozzy 'saved' Cochran to save his own butt. He was on the outs with his tribe after his little tantrum, and wanted to make a 'big move' in the game to up his 'hero' rating, whether to the audience or his tribe. If he was really concerned about his tribe, he would have went the safe route, voted out Cochran, and scooped up Christine. It was all about Ozzy.
The list goes on. I kind of hate the 'we saved you' argument in fact. It kind of implies to me that not all people are equal in this game. The chose to vote someone else out, their choice. Just because they didn't vote out Cochran doesn't make him their pawn or give them license to make him a nothing in the game. They forgot he could be a critical vote, their bad.

I found the behaviour of cheering for Dawn and not Whitney at the immunity unlikeable. I understand they don't like Whitney, but it is pointless to be downright mean about it, it only mirrors the behaviour of Savaii they said they hate.

[captain]

I did not understand Brandon's comment about his tribe being excluded. Excluded from what? They have been on opposing teams. Neither side really merged together as one. There has always been 2 separate teams. This would have been an ideal opportunity for Albert and Sophie to switch things up and have blindsided Coach, not Cochran. That is where Jim screwed up. Cochran is no threat to Albert or Sophie so why would they switch to vote him out.

[SugarMama]

...I agree with you except for the bolded sentence... everytime Cochran was 'saved', it was because another contestant had some other motive. Jim 'saved' Cochran because he wanted to get rid of Elise. The main purpose was to get rid of Elise, the secondary was to hopefully make Cochran his pawn. Ozzy 'saved' Cochran to save his own butt. He was on the outs with his tribe after his little tantrum, and wanted to make a 'big move' in the game to up his 'hero' rating, whether to the audience or his tribe. If he was really concerned about his tribe, he would have went the safe route, voted out Cochran, and scooped up Christine. It was all about Ozzy.
The list goes on. I kind of hate the 'we saved you' argument in fact. It kind of implies to me that not all people are equal in this game. The chose to vote someone else out, their choice. Just because they didn't vote out Cochran doesn't make him their pawn or give them license to make him a nothing in the game. They forgot he could be a critical vote, their bad...

I completely agree. They had always put themselves above Cochran, in my opinion, and used him as the pawn - he knew full well that once he was no longer needed as a pawn, he'd go. While the same will probably be true with the other group, maybe he felt he at least stood a chance of making an inroad.

[Bearcata]

spockwhat, Sugarmama, I agree with your comments. Even now the Savaii members don't get it that they have basically told Cochran he was worthless from day one and even their comments that "I saved" you implies that Cochran is incapable of saving himself . Well, guess what, he did and you didn't like it and you still treated him like doodoo.

Oh, this is for Whitney, please save the crocidile tears, you say you are a good person and yet you tell Cochran he disgusts you and that because of him you have wasted 6 weeks of your life. How hateful. How spiteful. You are not a good person.

[Bearcata]

Oh and from the previews next week...who made Coach "The Godfather" - "Anyone who goes against the family is dead..."

I have decided to put Coach back in the "somewhat crazy so humour him, he's basically harmless and often good for a laugh" column...

Oh, and hey! who knew that tai chi involves vigorous fist clenching and arm shaking...or was that merely for our benefit? Gah.

I think the reason they producers keep bringing Coach back is that he gives great soundbites.

[cablejockey]

spockwhat, Sugarmama, I agree with your comments. Even now the Savaii members don't get it that they have basically told Cochran he was worthless from day one and even their comments that "I saved" you implies that Cochran is incapable of saving himself . Well, guess what, he did and you didn't like it and you still treated him like doodoo.

Oh, this is for Whitney, please save the crocidile tears, you say you are a good person and yet you tell Cochran he disgusts you and that because of him you have wasted 6 weeks of your life. How hateful. How spiteful. You are not a good person.

I also thought those were crocodile tears and didnt work for what she thought they would! And when Cochrane came back to face the derision and venom from his former tribe, I would have loved to see him say--yeah I did it/so what/get over it/this is a game of only one winner!

[spockwhat]

Totally agree about the crocodile tears. She's simply finding out it hurts. What goes around, comes around, I guess. Still, I do think Upolu could have taken the high road at the immunity, but that said, Whitney should suck it up.

[sweetpea]

I think it's possible Whitney's tears were genuine. She was genuinely p*ssed at Cochrane and yes, I thought her comments to him after TC were the most harsh and the most hurtful, and I really wonder if none of these people have ever watched the show before - even if you feel like punching someone in the face, don't go off on them and lose a vote!!! In comparison, Ozzy was pretty civil, IMO.

BUT I also think Whitney (who I don't care about at all) genuinely felt frustrated and hurt at being given the label of 'terrible person' by Brandon and the rest of his tribe. The funny thing is, every single person has flaws. Brandon's treatment of Mikayla was just as bad as Whitney's treatment of Cochran. Why does he get to sit on the 'good' side and she gets to sit on the 'bad' side?? Because whoever has the majority is in the right? This isn't a new thing, we've all seen it before, but sometimes the self-righteousness at TC gets to be a bit much to handle. Also, as Spockwhat said above, the blatant cheering for Dawn at the IC was exactly the kind of behaviour that Brandon seems to love to speak out against, but I guess if they do it, it's ok, but if someone else does it's not?

That said, we didn't see Whitney attempt any kind of inroad to the other tribe. She seemed to merely sit around and act upset, which doesn't bode well for getting further in the game. I am so tired of these people playing with little to no strategy and all emotions!! Get off your butt and start strategizing! At least try! Ugh.

I wonder if some of the players might not want to raise their hands at TC and ask Jeff for a 'do over' with other people on another season? All the fun of a good, sneaky game of Survivor has devolved into a "you have to play with honour or you are not worthy" game of Survivor. At some point, as Maybaybie said, the loyalty is going to go out the window and the 'family' is going to have to turn on itself. I can't wait!!

Jim shot himself in his own foot, and I was laughing as he went to join his three friends at RI. It was funny when he said "I thought we were going to be the F3!" as he sat down. Ha ha ha ha ha....

[jadewarlock]

I may be in the minority, but out of the two vets I'm liking Coach better. He has his moments, but he's mostly been there for good humor in a rather backbiting season.

Ozzy is OK, but I really think he's taken a downturn in me liking him this year given his constant foul mouth when he loses. I was also surprised he wasn't warned by Jeff one challenge to stop kicking the set because of liability as well as destruction of property. (Or short, I have been surprised he hasn't been threatened with ejection from the game surprisingly - though yes, we did have that one guy in Thailand try to choke Clay).

I'm thinking next week that we'll see the final Redemption Island challenge - or I hope so, and then everyone else goes to jury. That way, we have them all listening in on the councils.