11/2 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

[RBmumsie]

I'm not sure how Cochran was supposed to just vote with "the other tribe" the first vote when they would not tell him who they were voting for. He had no idea they were voting Keith until the split vote. Then he knew who to vote for so that he could flip sides. It would have been different if they had let him know ahead of time however they did not since they were not sure they could trust him.

I was disappointed in Dawn who seemed ready to stand up for Cochran and flip as well so that she didn't have to pick a rock, until she won individual immunity and changed her mind. So she was ready to make a big game change as long as she was on the possible chopping block but as soon as she was safe she decided against it.

Both are excellent points.

[Bearcata]

I'm not sure how Cochran was supposed to just vote with "the other tribe" the first vote when they would not tell him who they were voting for. He had no idea they were voting Keith until the split vote. Then he knew who to vote for so that he could flip sides. It would have been different if they had let him know ahead of time however they did not since they were not sure they could trust him.

I was disappointed in Dawn who seemed ready to stand up for Cochran and flip as well so that she didn't have to pick a rock, until she won individual immunity and changed her mind. So she was ready to make a big game change as long as she was on the possible chopping block but as soon as she was safe she decided against it.

I'm with you on the being disappointed with Dawn. I think she would have been of a different mind set if she had not won immunity. Or if she was really smart, she could have held back and let Cochran fall on his sword saving herself for the next 3 days. Still sooner or later she will have to make a move.

[captain]

Savaii is not going to be happy with Dawn, if it comes out she knew there was a possibility of Cochran flipping. I am definitely not a Cochran fan, he needs to go with his whinning. I really have not picked any of them to root for. I had quit watching Survivor because of bringing back previous players so much. If they do it again, I am finished.

[Dragonlady]

Again, I must say that I'm not a good strategist....at all! But I don't fault Dawn for changing her mind...like we've all been saying...it's a game and real life rules don't apply and emotions shouldn't get in the way. She decided to do what (she felt) was in her best interest...isn't that what it is all about?

As for Cochran not getting any color in the tropics, I have a son in law who never tans, must use a gazillion SPF or will painfully burn in only 5 minutes so that's probably Cochran's situation too.

I would have thought that by Cochran's age, he would have toughened up some about being unfairly, unkindly being picked on. I can't believe this is the first time in his life. I know it takes time and maturity to not let it affect us as much but I wonder if he's just using that to play the victim card. That would really bother me far more than his dorky-ness, his non-physical abilities, etc. Time will tell. I think the contestants should be themselves, try their best and do whatever it takes to win....and stop all the silly nonsense about loyalty, honesty, etc. It's a freakin' game where those rules don't apply.

[spockwhat]

I have also been wondering how in the heck that Cochran does not ever seem any darker. They are in a sunny environment after all. He is still that pasty white color, and I am very fair skinned myself and do not tan much and usually burn, so it would seem like Cochran must be using buckets of suntan lotion all over his entire body. The only thing that is even red is his nose.

His nose shades the rest of his body?



Sorry, that was so Savaii of me. :p

[Lucy van Pelt]

So I guess Cochran is the exception to the majority of human beings who do not react emotionally to the way they are treated?

I'm not sure I understand this. It appears to me that you are being sarcastic, essentially saying that the majority of human beings DO react emotionally to the way they are treated? Apologies if I don't get what you're getting at. But I think you missed what I was getting at. Of course most people are emotional about being treated badly. My point was that Cochrane seems to think it only matters if he's the one being badly treated; if HE is the one dishing out bad treatment, it's A-OK. Everyone can choose either to react emotionally or not; but it's the height of arrogance, to me, to think/feel/act as if it only applies to you.

To me, Cochrane is a Uriah Heep (the Dickens character, not the band!). From Wikipedia: "The character is notable for his cloying humility, obsequiousness, and insincerity, making frequent references to his own "'umbleness". Heep's whole act was to provide himself cover while he worked behind the scenes to take over his employer's business. I see insincerity as the main component of Cochrane, in private and in the way he publically presents himself. If people (Savaii tribe) find this annoying, and see through the insincerity, they will of course treat him with distain and dislike. And when someone puts on this underdog act, its very easy for that distain and dislike to be perceived as bullying. Cochrane, or course, is much more complex than this simplistic analysis. I think he's poorly chosen his public persona. It just makes people dislike him more. I've know quite a few physically unattractive people for whom that is irrelevant; their intelligence and personality makes you forget or overlook the physical unattractiveness. Cochrane is not one of them. I sincerely hope he IS a good person and will clean up his act. But right now, he seems very unaware of and uncaring anything that isn't directly related to him.

I get the sense that many of us have had bad experiences with bullying, whether personally or of someone we cared for. I am no exception. I've been bullied (and had attempts made, but I became rather good at standing up for myself), and I've seen people I cared about bullied. I don't like it. But I still don't think that's what happened to Cochrane. I worked with someone who was a lot like Cochrane in many ways (not as intelligent though); she drove me freakin' nuts! To the point of complaining to several of my closest co-workers. Each and every one initially told me they thought she was nice, and eventually told me they understood why I could barely be civil to her. All our life experiences color our perceptions, and that is a big one for me.

I don't even dislike Cochrane that much. I just don't think he's the underdog that he's trying to paint himself to be. There are lots of excerpt videos at the Survivor site for those of you wishing for a longer show time. Some are repeats of sections of the show we see, but about half are things we're not shown. You can get to know more about the contestants that way. Probably some of my perception of Cochrane comes from watching those. I'm always busy on Wednesday evenings, so I watch the whole show the next day online. And then I watch the extras.

And like Sweetpea, I'd have a lot more respect for Cochrane if he'd just stand up and say, "I thought it was best for me. I know it was a betrayal of what we agreed, but that's the game". He wants to look out for himself yet still be perceived as a "good guy". Yeah right.

I think Coach's talk to Cochrane about how they're superior to others so the others of course try to pull them down was sheerly for Cochrane's benefit. Stroking Cochrane's ego (superior) and equating him with Upolu's top dog (Coach). I missed both of Coach's previous seasons, so I can only base my perceptions on this one. He seems to be very acute in his observations, almost uncannily so.

Brandon is still a tool. And I noticed despite Brandon indicating that Cochrane needed protection and should stick with him, when they walked out of Tribal Council, Ozzy was right behind Cochrane. Who did not look scared for his safety, and Ozzy did not whack him in the back of the head or set his pants on fire with his torch.

I liked the concept of sending the "tied for votes" people (Rick and Keith) both to Redemption Island, and they would be the next duel it out for staying in the game. Of course, if the tribes knew that, then the temptation would be to send the strongest player to RI. Or second strongest (as perceived) -- I could see Coach and Ozzy being happy with Keith and Albert duelling it out. And Keith and Albert being VERY unhappy about that.

[Bearcata]

I was angry at your comment because it sounded as if you said that only Cochran is the only person who reacts emotionally to the way he is treated and that all other people do not react emotionally. Yes, Ozzy is a prime example of how cool and collected a person's response is supposed to be.

I am surprised as the vehemence of other posters to Cochran and that many comment on how they think Cochran is bringing the behavior on himself. I don't see it myself, but I also realize that we viewers only see an edited 45 minutes or so of what happens in a 3 day period. I do think Cochran is very sensitive to to other people's comments and he very self aware that he is not very capable physically, so has concentrated on his intellect. Still he is of an age and level of independence where he can get a trainer and learn how to use his body. If nothing else Cochran is very honest about he can and cannot do in his confessionals and when talking to the tribe. I do find in my work environment that is not always the smartest thing to do and that if you do identify yourself as weak in an area people will see that as a sign of weakness and sooner or later use that to attack you. We (people) are not always that far removed from our biology and I do think that is one area Cochran need to acquire another method of how he relates to other people.

I also think that in this country (US) if you are an athlete you are put on a pedestal and worshiped as a GOD and can do no wrong. People identify with their teams and the aggression on the playing field and I do think subconsciously we viewers are seeing that behavior being played out in how the members of Savaii treat Cochran. Savaii could have resolved the problem of Cochran a long time ago but they did not vote him off so they really have no one to blame but themselves and God forbid they do that because as athletes and superior competitors (in their own minds) they can do no wrong and it is all Cochran's fault.

[Dragonlady]

I was angry at your comment because it sounded as if you said that only Cochran is the only person who reacts emotionally to the way he is treated and that all other people do not react emotionally. Yes, Ozzy is a prime example of how cool and collected a person's response is supposed to be.

I am surprised as the vehemence of other posters to Cochran and that many comment on how they think Cochran is bringing the behavior on himself. I don't see it myself, but I also realize that we viewers only see an edited 45 minutes or so of what happens in a 3 day period. I do think Cochran is very sensitive to to other people's comments and he very self aware that he is not very capable physically, so has concentrated on his intellect. Still he is of an age and level of independence where he can get a trainer and learn how to use his body. If nothing else Cochran is very honest about he can and cannot do in his confessionals and when talking to the tribe. I do find in my work environment that is not always the smartest thing to do and that if you do identify yourself as weak in an area people will see that as a sign of weakness and sooner or later use that to attack you. We (people) are not always that far removed from our biology and I do think that is one area Cochran need to acquire another method of how he relates to other people.

I also think that in this country (US) if you are an athlete you are put on a pedestal and worshiped as a GOD and can do no wrong. People identify with their teams and the aggression on the playing field and I do think subconsciously we viewers are seeing that behavior being played out in how the members of Savaii treat Cochran. Savaii could have resolved the problem of Cochran a long time ago but they did not vote him off so they really have no one to blame but themselves and God forbid they do that because as athletes and superior competitors (in their own minds) they can do no wrong and it is all Cochran's fault.

Excellent post! Very astute, and extremely accurate in my personal opinion.

[captain]

IMHO I have not seen Cochran really use his intellect yet. He claims he is Survivior's greatest fan, but the way he is playing seems like he has never seen the show. There have been scrawny people go far on this show. To me he seems to always be talking about how inept he is before the challenges, that way if they lost he could say "see I told you I was weak". I think if Cochran were female we might be talking about him differently.

[Bearcata]

I also know that there are associate producers asking the contestants pointed questions and sometimes the same questions during a confessional. Also they are filming for a lot longer then we see. It is better to have too much material to edit then not enough. This from personal experience in taking a video making class. Also the producers have created a story arc about scrawny, helpless Cochran so we have ourselves a self perpetuating cycle of that's what he is asked and that is what we see.

As for Cochran being female, well isn't Edna the "female version" of Cochran. The only difference is that the editors and producers are not focused as much on her as Cochran. Has Edna mentioned that she is weak in physical challenges I know her tribe has?