9/15 Show Discussion **SPOILERS**

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Originally Posted by Qboots

I'm wondering why they didn't show Jim's vote against Margaret at tribal council. It isn't like Burnett's editors to do that. Normally they would show two votes for Jim, then the one for Margaret, to make the viewers momentarily think there might be a male vs female alliance.

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I'm thinking it's possible that this premiere was a homage to the early seasons. It wasn't about strategy, it was about people struggling to survive in harsh conditions. It was about determining who was really a liability to your tribe and who was really a strength. Jim's vote was supposed to be cut and dry; he was the one person who would not be helping Nakum in the future. The women were the real strength of the tribe, and a vote against Margaret might shatter that depiction of them.

Plus, everybody knew that Jim's vote was going to Margaret; apparently he "drew corn" and it ended up being Margaret who would get his vote. So it's not like the tribe needed to see it.

And then there's the more conspiralitical theories. Maybe past votes are coming into play again, or maybe upcoming tribal councils are going to make a point out of having the tribe wonder how unshown votes really went. But really, it seems likely that a vote for Margaret was not shown because it would hurt the editing of the episode as a whole.

Or maybe because it didn't make any *difference* to the editing of the episode as a whole. I mean, if he chose Margaret purely at random, and that was one vote out of the rest of them, what does it matter? Thus, why bother showing it? It's a throwaway, and showing it would take time out of more interesting stuff. :shrug

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Originally Posted by cable101

And then there's the more conspiralitical theories. Maybe past votes are coming into play again,

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That's pretty much where my mind was going. :nod

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Originally Posted by Krom

For a while. But in the end? Not even close at that point.

So I guess the point is that Team Puke (nice one) is a bunch of nancy boys and Team Steph (we need a better nickname) actually has the balls. :lol Even with the Gay Woody Allen guy involved.

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Finally watched first episode of S:Guatemala. Team Steph should be called Team Gonads since I noticed that in Team Puke they blurred Judd's low hangers which apparently can be seen thru his thin pants when he was bent over puking while the camera was directly behind him. It meant that Team Puke doesn't have balls unlike the other team!

So who are gay Rafe and Brian? Brandon was actually the only healthy guy in Team Puke. Judd said that he only puked once then he was alright. It seemed that the men carried a lot of their stuff that's why they were more sick and tired than the women. Jim is the correct boot, he's just more of a liability than the other men in the tribe not only because he was old but because he was injured. Blake reminds me of Joe Millionaire. Rafe's got a whiny voice, annoying as hell and he should be voted off very soon (he is also not very physical). Gary should have said that he is a businessman (it said so in his profile), at least it will not be lying. Lydia is a target for boot because of her age but she works hard around camp. I don't think Steph and BJ will make it to the merge because they will be a threat. Danni is hot! I like Judd...so funny that he got stuck in that mud! He is crass but he is comic relief. I'm leaning towards Margaret to win it if she makes it to the merge (another nurse winning the million????)

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And then there's the more conspiralitical theories. Maybe past votes are coming into play again, or maybe upcoming tribal councils are going to make a point out of having the tribe wonder how unshown votes really went. But really, it seems likely that a vote for Margaret was not shown because it would hurt the editing of the episode as a whole.

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How could that hurt the editing? If they are bringing past votes back at TC, I think it's only fair that they show anyone who received a vote. Even if Margaret received more than one vote, just letting her tribe know for strategy's sake. I'd also hate to go into TC feeling all comfortable, thinking if it was a tie that there'd be a challenge to do, only to be told that my past votes that I didn't even know about were the reason I was getting booted. At least if a person knows they have previous votes, they can strategize better.

Then again, maybe the producers are worried someone will turn into Lex 2.0 and use a mystery vote against them as an excuse to boot someone because they feel they were wronged :ohno

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Originally Posted by karalott

How could that hurt the editing?

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Because the women were the strength of the tribe, and a vote for Margaret wouldn't make sense, editing-wise. Maybe if it had been a vote for Bobby Jon or Blake it would have been shown. But Jim voting against Margaret would hurt the depiction of her and the rest of the Nakum women as the dominating majority and the clear strength in everyday life as well as challenges. Plus, it would hurt Margaret's personal editing as the nurturer; why in the world would anybody want the caring nurturer to go in those conditions?

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Originally Posted by cable101

Because the women were the strength of the tribe, and a vote for Margaret wouldn't make sense, editing-wise. Maybe if it had been a vote for Bobby Jon or Blake it would have been shown. But Jim voting against Margaret would hurt the depiction of her and the rest of the Nakum women as the dominating majority and the clear strength in everyday life as well as challenges. Plus, it would hurt Margaret's personal editing as the nurturer; why in the world would anybody want the caring nurturer to go in those conditions?

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But when you talk about "editing", you're talking about what the audience is shown. And we saw the vote for Margaret during the end credits. The vote went the same way in episode #2, but this time they chose to show the tribe Morgan's vote against Lydia. So one tribe knows who the bootee voted for, the other tribe doesn't. The inconsistency is a little puzzling.

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Originally Posted by Qboots

we saw the vote for Margaret during the end credits. The vote went the same way in episode #2, but this time they chose to show the tribe Morgan's vote against Lydia. So one tribe knows who the bootee voted for, the other tribe doesn't.

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Of course the audience was shown who Jim voted for in the closing credits. That's bound to happen no matter what the editing wants to show. The point is, the audience could have been shown the vote for Margaret when Probst was reading the votes, and we weren't. It is when Jeff is tallying the votes that the audience is paying the most attention; how the shown votes go determines how this latter part of the episode comes off to the viewers. For all we know, that vote for Margaret may have been read at tribal council, but never shown on television. Nakum knew who Jim voted for despite what they saw at TC because it was planned out that way. However, the editing didn't show that vote to the audience when it could have, and that was important for the first episode. A vote that hurts the Nakum theme in the premiere is not a vote that needs to be shown at TC. Sure, there are lots of us who will catch it in the credits and wonder what happened. But our impression of the episode is based off what we saw initially. Morgan's vote for Lydia supported the Episode 2 theme of work ethic versus challenge strength. It was shown because it fit exactly how the editing intended it to (as skewed as the post-challenge editing was in that episode).

Personally, I've never felt my perception of any survivor was that changed by whether I saw them receiving *one* vote or not. I really don't see what difference it makes. :mmm

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Originally Posted by Lucy

Personally, I've never felt my perception of any survivor was that changed by whether I saw them receiving *one* vote or not. I really don't see what difference it makes. :mmm

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Sure, that one vote won't decide your perception of the first episode. But it's one little subtle thing that contributes to the overall theme of the episode. It's a piece of the editing puzzle, and the puzzle only really works when it has all its pieces. Leave one out, and the puzzle still looks fine. But the more you leave out, the worse that puzzle looks. You're always best off if you try to fit in as many pieces as possible.