10-12-2005, 10:04 PM #131
Wow, you all are harsh. LOL FWIW rattlerbrat I'm not trying to change anyone else's opinion. Just stating mine, same as anyone else. After all, are any of us gonna change either one of these two? No. At most I hope for never seeing Oma on my tv again, but that's as far as any impact any of our publicly posted missives might have an effect. Nor are we going to change each other's opinion most likely. That leaves just talking about this cos it's fun to dish it up and talk about it. I kinda step back if I see anyone getting too heated about all this.
As for my saying Janice is a scared kitten inside - don't confuse 'acting out' with emotional maturity or bravery in a confrontation. She like I said here elsehwere, is stuck in 'what was cute at 20' mode when she was the bad girl of the Studio 54 set. It just does not work when you are 50 plus that is another time. Flashing someone in public is not seen as funny or daring any more like it was in the days of "The Streak" when that was a top hit record... Just a different time. But acting out is usually done by people who are insecure inside. People who can handle their own don't do things like that.
As for a 'fragile mind' I did not mean delicate like someone you'd see in a tea room or teaching Sunday school. I meant not able to handle much tension or pressure. Why else would she have hid with a drug habit and such all those years? But it doesn't mean she was into that now. She's been in rehab. If she is sober and someone's trying to drive her round the bend, or picking on her, that is even worse, if she was driven back to drink. Just cos someone might be a mess (as Janice admits) is not a crime, or an excuse to be hateful to them. As for being wild and also being a PTA mom, well, Billy Idol is involved in his kid's school - it is a different story for what is 'normal' in certain cities. Also Janice may have been cranking it up a notch for tv. Like she said she did for ANTM where she said that was what they told her to do.
As for Janice picking on Oma, I don't feel she did. It was self defense from what I could see. Or maybe at first she felt it was just bitchiness and she was giving some back. Then it got nasty. But I mean if it's going to get that serious, why? That is when most of the viewers got disgusted, I think. At the point it wasn't just two catty females any more but one really going for the jugular. Can't understand why anyone would think that would be a logical extension of how it started. Doing the dozens is one thing but going for broke is another. AT the point Janice started crying for real it should've been over, if Oma had any conscience at all. Good bad or indifferent. Be the better person if you will. She didn't and wasn't.
I think the cast (only one I recall saying it was Caprice and she's not a rocket scientist) said they 'bonded' with O, before that last supper happened. Why didn't they get in the middle of it? Lots of reasons - exhaustion, not caring enough about either and self preservation or self interest. Most people will pick the less exhausting person to be around and also no one has mentioned: They wanted camera time too. The more they got involved or fed into the Oma/Janice thing, the less the show was about any of them. By the end they were all seeing more about how O took all this a little too seriously and hurt Janice for real. But bottom line most people do what is easiest. I agree Janice made it all about herself, too. But I don't see malice in her where I do in Ohnoma. She really is that messed up inside. And yes it's cos of what she went through, rattlerbrat... Oma is spoiled by her mom; read what J went through sometime (with her mom), it doesn't excuse things but it does explain it. I give Janice props for coming out of hell and making anything of her life whatsoever. At least she does not make a living pushing other people off a cliff.
Last edited by Brandy; 10-12-2005 at 10:12 PM.
10-12-2005, 10:28 PM #132
Yes, I still think it was self defense. I'd have to watch the early shows again to double check on this but as I remember it, Oma started it every time. Janice does not strike me as someone to start things. She strikes me as deep down, one who'd run away, just like we saw at the final show. She lived in fear growing up every day. She is also one who is not gonna back down from it once someone has really irked her. I know that seems a contradiction in terms but it is not quite the same idea.
Janice said she was gonna flip Oma off every time she saw her, after Oma jumped on Janice merely for walking through the room. By then Oma had kept calling Janice a "crack whore". Maybe you and I are both remembering things a bit skewed in favor of which one had our sympathies. But that is what I recall.
As for the butcher knife... Oma did not just ask Janice to do that. She said that Janice was a crackhead standing over her with a butcher knife. Anyone would be insulted and Janice's personality is such that it then became personal and backing away would mean agreement. Oma knew darn well she was not in danger. Again no one replies to what I feel are valid questions I raised on this - but, if Oma truly felt in danger... did anyone hide all the knives? What about before that moment? Did Oma tell anyone she felt in physical danger? Did she leave the house for real? Did she quit goading or baiting Janice? No. Just how afraid was Oma really, then.
Don't forget Oma's been caught in more than one fib. On camera, even. About the seven stab wounds - let's see 'em. If she lied about the N word, lied about growing up on the streets as her Ex implies, lied about not knowing Janice was on the phone (when O answered it), etc., why not about "Oh I'm so afraid of this prop during a photo shoot". We all saw Janice be told to pick up the knife and go stand there. She as a former model did what she was told & knew what the producers were going for. Has Oma never been in a photo shoot before? That whole thing was just ridiculous. It only shows how new to all this Oma really is.
At the final supper... Janice could have shut up, yes. But the thing that really opened it all up I blame on the producers. They wrote the question "Ask Oma for an apology". Not Janice. I think it was when Oma tried to say she hadn't and woiuldn't apologise that Janice lost it. This is where again Janice's childhood shows. She dealt with a double talking double dealing monster all her childhood. I think it was a combo of hurt, exhaustion and then again soon as Oma smelled blood in the water she went for it. It is about being a better person... simply because, if for no other reason, because Oma was so cool and detached during it. She could have stopped and chose not to. Janice was hurt for real. Oma was laughing.
Oma isn't a lion acting out of heat. This is not real emotion for her. If it were I would call it evens. Oma is not a lion - she's a shark. I've got pity for wounded bears lashing out, but not for sharks. They don't need it.
10-13-2005, 01:13 AM #133
Janice has had a wierd fixation with Omarosa since the beginning of the show. In the early episodes of the show, Janice was the provacateur / aggressor. Remember comments like, "Mr. Ed on Crack," and "Rick James' Siamese twin"? And the lowest of the low, her behavior at the bowling game - offering to coach the other team, backing out, Omarosa offering to step in and Janice out of blue calls her a whore (then there were the retard and Rain Man comments).
Janice dished it out and Omarosa served it right back to her and a whole lot more. I have already opined that Omarosa is an opportunist and she has no moral compass, but it is difficult to feel sympathy for Janice when she for whatever reason acted out on her obsession with Omarosa. If you have ever seen Janice on America's Next Top Model, you would know that she does have a cruel streak. More often than not, she was blunt with the contestants, but she would at times cross into cruelty.
I have no idea why someone of Janice's stature would even care about the likes of Omarosa. In fact, it could be argued that at the beginning Janice did consider Omarosa the weak link of the group, because after all Omarosa comes with a lot of (richly deserved) baggage, and like a kid on the playground Janice set out to marginalize Omarosa, but guess what? Omarosa did not roll over as expected and in fact counterattacked and that is what we witnessed in the last few episodes.
On a more positive note, Janice was on America's Next Top Model tonight and she was wonderful - she was the Janice Dickinson I had come to adore on ANTM (but sadly my adoration faded during SL5).
Last edited by aga; 10-13-2005 at 01:19 AM.
"We all know that we're going to get beat tonight." - Melrose (ANTM Cycle 7) when Monique gets eliminated from the CoverGirl / Queen Latifah challenge. "Hi pretty lady...and Tyra." - Heather (ANTM Cycle 9)
10-13-2005, 01:31 AM #134
aga, you didn't get the memo? See, all of those unwarranted, unprovoked attacks were okay because Janice had a rough childhood. DOYOUGETIT!?! So apparently, the rest of the cast was supposed to not only kiss her ass and call it ice cream, but ignore her never-ending crappy behavior. ESPECIALLY towards Omarosa. DOYOUGETIT!?!? Because she's the world's first supermodel and Omarosa is just a lowly reality TV celebrity...but so is Janice...and...but...anyway. DOYOUGETIT!?!?
Originally Posted by aga
Damn skippy. Not that this makes either "woman" better than the other. I'm just saying...what's that whole thing about talking the talk and walking the walk? Janice walked the walk, all right...right on out of a window.
Janice dished it out and Omarosa served it right back to her and a whole lot more.
The reason why Omareosa doesn't bother me is because she freely admits she's as fake as her hair weave. Even the CAST put a damper on SJR's parade when they told her that they already knew what she was "surprising" them with. Why? Because Omarosa had already told them!
I have already opined that Omarosa is an opportunist and she has no moral compass, but it is difficult to feel sympathy for Janice when she for whatever reason acted out on her obsession with Omarosa.
YES! Janice was so trying to pull a "Mean Girls". For all the whining she did about O turning the house against her, Janice would've done the EXACT SAME THING if she could've! She had every intention of having everyone in the house dislike Omarosa - what she wasn't counting on is that everyone in the house would dislike her MORE! The scene where Janice comes in from Dirty Laundry flapping those Botoxed lips and they all just walk out is just priceless. Maybe they didn't know she's the world's first supermodel or something? She should've talked about it more.
I have no idea why someone of Janice's stature would even care about the likes of Omarosa. In fact, it could be argued that at the beginning Janice did consider Omarosa the weak link of the group...and like a kid on the playground Janice set out to marginalize Omarosa, but guess what? Omarosa did not roll over as expected and in fact counterattacked and that is what we witnessed in the last few episodes.
10-13-2005, 01:37 AM #135
I have to agree with ratterbrat. Janice can get hardcore when she is talking to weaker individuals like she did on top model but she is a straight up chicken when it comes to someone who can actually stand up for themselves. She had all that mouth on top model talking to those kids and now she is crying like a baby over a grown woman. Now she knows how it feels to have hurtful comments thrown her way.
10-13-2005, 04:07 AM #136
Ron she's stated that she felt that was why they hired her for ANTM. To be the Simon Cowell of ANTM. That was what they told her to do. Producers of shows decide to 'go another way' all the time.
10-14-2005, 01:26 AM #137
Ok great, but if she could build up enough nerve to talk to those young girls that way how come she couldn't do it to Omarosa.
10-14-2005, 05:28 AM #138
I was watching part of the show again earlier today. TiVo is automatically set up to tape it (season pass) and I hadn't changed that yet. So I let it run while I was doing something else, and just kind of to revisit some of the earlier ones. Wondering what exactly went down. How did this all happen, how did it start, etc. Who was first.
Seemed like there were two incidents that touched all this off. First one - Omarosa was on the phone a long time, and seemed like nothing was said about why - so Janice didn't know and kept asking when she could use the phone to call her kids. A simple explanation would've defused that - family business, something urgent, anything like that as opposed to just being sarcastic back to Janice. Then Oma goes to the other people and says that Janice was completely insensitive to all that and so forth. The others believe her. We don't know whether anyone told Janice or not, that Oma was on the phone not just chit chatting but with some serious stuff.
The 2nd thing was the makeup thing. Janice used the bathroom every morning, to get her hair/makeup done. (She said in an interview she also lent Oma her 'guys' - that's according to Janice.) She apparently had a room set aside for that but isn't using it cos of some 'micro fibers' stuck to the freshly painted walls. Janice appears to have allergies is my guess. Anyway, another big stink is made of it, and Bronson calls Janice an idiot. I think he wouldn't have been so hard on Janice if A) he was embarrassed publicly by her rejection of him and B) Oma ragged on Janice the night before.
This is all high-school stuff, but, when public opinion, camera time and possible reputation etc., are at stake, it all gets amped up higher. So, at that point is when Oma had her person to play villain against. She gets to play the Oma 'character' and in my opinion, Janice never saw it coming. Yes, Janice was being loud and larry Janice, hanging her butt out the window and all that (cos the camera was on her and she has her old rep to live up to) and basically playing the Janice character (including the constant "I'm a Supermodel" bit - twinkle in her eye if you look close enough, & a grin). But to Janice it is all a lark.
But to Oma, still establishing her 'career' and public persona, it's on. At this point she feels she is in a struggle for domination of that house. Oma and domination of any situation are like snake to water. Just natural instinct. The thing is, to Janice this is just the latest gig. And when Oma sniffed out that Janice had some issues and some buttons for real, even better. That little Oma smirk comes out. She starts in saying things as if they're true - Janice is crazy, Janice is allergic to herself, etc.
But when we look at what actually happened - a fight over bathroom time and a fight over phone time. Teenage stuff. So who amped it up to a whole new serious level? I think Oma did.
By the time Janice figured out what was happening for real, and that it wasn't playtime to Oma, (whether Oma says it was real or not - she really did break Janice down and knew it - so it was real) the blood was in the water and the shark was on the move. At that point Janice could at best splash for some diversion. If Oma had been overt rather than covert about all this, maybe Janice would've been too. But I saw Janice apologise at the construction site, I saw her baffled when Bronson called her an idiot, etc.
That house had to be a nightmare for her.
Now that I basically assessed what happened from early days in the house, a direct answer. She did not stand up directly to Oma partly because she was always covertly attacking. To attack Oma then only made Janice look worse or at best, wear everyone out to the point no one wanted to get in the middle of it. Meanwhile Oma had the savvy to charm up to the others. All the while running Janice down to them. Janice was dazed and caught up trying to defend herself. Oma got in the first punches and it was downhill from there for Supermodel.
But my question is, why would she want to do that... why would that be something to be proud of. We could all be underhanded if we wanted to and start something out of nothing. Big deal.
More direct answer: The twinkies on ANTM are not gonna bite back, or if they do, they are outta there anyway. It is not the same situation - they're not all in the same house for 12 days together. Plus, it is a situation in which they stand there TO BE criticised. I have not seen her actually do what you all are saying she does (though I take your word for it). But that was why she was hired. The girls are there to be assessed and critiqued. The SL house - people were there to just cut loose, take it easy, see what happens. Not to go for each other's throats for real.
I can't tell you for sure what she was thinking in that house, I can only look at the show(s) and take my best guess. But the two situations are totally different. Also one was a job, the other was her. She may amp it up for the cameras but push her buttons and she's gonna crumble. Oma sniffed out those buttons like an expert, which IMO she is. I just think that breaking a woman down is nothing to be proud of. Does Janice break those girls down to that degree? I haven't seen it. BUt I will say one thing. The real biz out there - agents, clients, photographers - is gonna be a whole lot harsher. Just like Simon Cowell vs. Paula Abdul - who's really doing the ones a favor, who are just gonna waste their time out there?
10-14-2005, 10:23 AM #139
Let's Agree to Disagree, THEY BOTH SUCK!
There, I said it.
10-14-2005, 03:24 PM #140
I never watched ANTM so did not see Janice in action - being cruel to others. Simply basing it on Surreal Life eps, I came to the conclusion that Janice got a raw deal. And the rest of the cast were wimps. However I'll take into consideration her behavior on those other shows.
Originally Posted by Ron85
Another thing: I love to read but some posts are too long even for me. Maybe it is just me.
Right now, I'm over the whole thing...unless I rewatch this season. I don't plan on it.
I (kinda) look forward to next season, but not as much as before this last train wreck of a season. Dammit!
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