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Thread: Espy awards

  1. #11
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    Re: Espy awards

    That's the thing Jax, for all people there is not next year. One of the people mentioned for consideration was Lauren Hill, the basketball player with a brain tumor who fought for the chance to play in a college game, and raised a ton of money for cancer research. She died. She has no next year. The show did a piece remembering her, and her mom spoke. But she won't have accomplishments next year to be honored.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Espy awards

    Quote Originally Posted by AcookerTV View Post
    That's the thing Jax, for all people there is not next year. One of the people mentioned for consideration was Lauren Hill, the basketball player with a brain tumor who fought for the chance to play in a college game, and raised a ton of money for cancer research. She died. She has no next year. The show did a piece remembering her, and her mom spoke. But she won't have accomplishments next year to be honored.
    She really doesn't have this year either, to put it bluntly. There is no reason she cannot win it next year. They can certainly find a way to extend her legacy.

    But has any dead person ever won the AA award? I think as mentioned upthread, there are awards more appropriate for that? I really do not know as this is the first year I have paid very close attention.
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    Re: Espy awards

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain View Post
    I am really irritated by all the criticisms and the complaining Facebook posts I am seeing about Caitlyn Jenner getting a courage award. Courage comes in many faces and forms. Why is it necessary to compare the degree of its worthiness? Why can't we just appreciate and honor all forms of courage that inspire and help others, even the kind some people don't fully understand? Sheesh.
    I hadn't read any of the criticisms about this so I went out to do some searches on it. The first one I ran across was Peter Berg's stuff. This one was great just for the title of it!!

    Caitlyn Jenner Is a Man, Says Friday Night Lights Creator Who Is a Dick
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    Re: Espy awards

    what I saw was a blind, so Im not sure who said these but one was the "he brought the plastic circus", another person did not want to be photo'd with Caitlyn and said they "didnt want to be part of the publicity stunt" and yet another said the award was "bought and paid for, and it takes the shine off the event"
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  5. #15
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    Re: Espy awards

    Yes. And then there are the people who are posting photos of people rescuing others and saying, "Now this is courage." They can't seem to grasp the concept that honoring one person's courage is not dishonoring someone else's.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Espy awards

    Gender Dysphoria is controversial, because physically, we only have two sexes (and people with Klinefelter Syndrome, which is an entirely different topic). The question is whether, like sexuality, gender identification is something we should express or suppress.

    We welcome Caitlyn Jenner because it seems like the right thing to do - she feels a very strong identification with being female.

    Until not that long ago, gay people were urged to suppress their sexuality. And those who are transgender were ignored entirely.

    But it's controversial because it's a similar mechanism to serious conditions like anorexia - where your feelings toward your body are at odds with the physical nature of your body itself. What should we do in these cases? Jenner has had extensive cosmetic surgery - she has exposed herself to great potential harm.

    Are we ignoring a serious disorder because it's not politically correct to assert that gender is biological? Because it's finally mainstream that people expressing their individual sexuality is a good thing (between consenting adults) and we naturally want to extend that to gender identity even though it's a completely different concept?

    What do we do with small children whose brains are developing at an astounding rate, but assert that they're a different sex? Do we proscribe puberty blockers and doom them to a life of physical problems all out of political correctness? Adults expressing gender dysphoria generally do so their entire lives. But that's a completely different story with children.

    We can also experiment with our sexuality, and no one has to care. Being young is wonderful. We can't necessarily experiment with our gender.

    So.... is Jenner brave? Absolutely. Is she a hero? I don't know. What is she standing up for? How does she feel about children and gender?

    And lastly - what the f--- is an Espy? The Super Bowl is a sports award. The World Cup is a sports award. People created the Emmys and Oscars because actors and directors have giant egos and like trophies, too. Merging sports and ego ceremonies seems about as relevant as merging the Westminister Dog Show with a middle school algebra test.

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    Re: Espy awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    She really doesn't have this year either, to put it bluntly. There is no reason she cannot win it next year. They can certainly find a way to extend her legacy.

    But has any dead person ever won the AA award? I think as mentioned upthread, there are awards more appropriate for that? I really do not know as this is the first year I have paid very close attention.
    Being a long time viewer of the ESPYs I can tell you that the awards generally focus on accomplishments of the past year. Hills accomplishments were in the past year - that's when she got the NCAA to alter things and played in her game. That's when she carried herself with class, raised money and awareness and set an example for how's to face adversity. It was also in the past year that Caitlyn Jenner came forward, shared her story, and became a beacon for many Americans who felt confused, forgotten, and alone. There are valid reasons for arguing that each deserved the honor. There's not a great deal to support that "wait til next year" is a sentiment that would make sense for either one. Which was more deserving? It's a matter of opinion with no right answer. But as was eluded to up thread, the Jenner decision was somewhat tarnished because of reports that the award was part of the negotiations for Diane Sawyer landing the final Bruce interview.

  8. #18
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    Re: Espy awards

    The Arthur Ashe award is for courage rather than heroism. It's an important distinction, I think. Look at other people who've won the award beyond Michael Sam and Robin Roberts (the previous two winners): Billie Jean King, Nelson Mandela, several of the passengers who died on flight 93 on 9/11.... It's not a traditional sports award, nor is it one for straightforward heroism. Are those people heroic? I think so, but the award also specifies that the recipient's/s' actions transcend sports. For me, Caitlyn qualifies. Her winning shouldn't be seen as a slam on anyone else. All that being said, it's just an award given out by a cable sports network. It's not the Nobel Prize or anything.

    I don't like the Kardashians, but I can appreciate the fact that they do support each other. I was pleased for Caitlyn that they all came together for her. Articles I read indicated that Caitlyn did not want the ex-wives to be there.

    As I was watching, I was struck by how really brave Caitlyn is. Imagine being held up as the epitome of masculinity and male athletic accomplishment, but hiding that kind of a secret. THEN, revealing that secret, living how you have always wanted to live and then not only going on stage in front of all of those people as your authentic self, but having it be THAT group of people (and let's be honest, sports is still a bastion of the old boy's club, regardless of any lip-service to the contrary)..... AND it's televised. That's pretty gutsy. I was impressed.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Espy awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Anemic Dog View Post
    Gender Dysphoria is controversial, because physically, we only have two sexes (and people with Klinefelter Syndrome, which is an entirely different topic). The question is whether, like sexuality, gender identification is something we should express or suppress.

    We welcome Caitlyn Jenner because it seems like the right thing to do - she feels a very strong identification with being female.

    Until not that long ago, gay people were urged to suppress their sexuality. And those who are transgender were ignored entirely.

    But it's controversial because it's a similar mechanism to serious conditions like anorexia - where your feelings toward your body are at odds with the physical nature of your body itself. What should we do in these cases? Jenner has had extensive cosmetic surgery - she has exposed herself to great potential harm.

    Are we ignoring a serious disorder because it's not politically correct to assert that gender is biological? Because it's finally mainstream that people expressing their individual sexuality is a good thing (between consenting adults) and we naturally want to extend that to gender identity even though it's a completely different concept?

    What do we do with small children whose brains are developing at an astounding rate, but assert that they're a different sex? Do we proscribe puberty blockers and doom them to a life of physical problems all out of political correctness? Adults expressing gender dysphoria generally do so their entire lives. But that's a completely different story with children.

    We can also experiment with our sexuality, and no one has to care. Being young is wonderful. We can't necessarily experiment with our gender.

    So.... is Jenner brave? Absolutely. Is she a hero? I don't know. What is she standing up for? How does she feel about children and gender?

    And lastly - what the f--- is an Espy? The Super Bowl is a sports award. The World Cup is a sports award. People created the Emmys and Oscars because actors and directors have giant egos and like trophies, too. Merging sports and ego ceremonies seems about as relevant as merging the Westminister Dog Show with a middle school algebra test.
    Actually, physically, there are quite a few sexes, not just two. If you go by chromosomes there's a whole range of combinations from X0 (meaning only one X and nothing else) to XXX to XYYY etc., with differing physical outcomes. And if you go by hormones, you can have people who are XY, but who are genetically insensitive to testosterone and so "look" externally female. And there are people who are XY but who are somewhat insensitive to testosterone to varying degrees. Klinefelter's is just one of many possible variations on the physical side of sex. That's why many people have added I for intersex to the usual LGBT grouping.
    And of course all of these people may be gay, straight or bi, and may identify as male, female, or truly trans in the sense of not choosing.

    People use the term "trans" in different ways. For some of them it is truly a two sex thing, as if there were only two sexes and you have to be one or the other.
    Others see gender as a cultural concept, with, in our culture, only 2 boxes, but they prefer to take things from both boxes. Others prefer to ignore the boxes altogether.
    One interesting question is, if our society didn't link sex and gender so tightly, and just have the two boxes, if we didn't have "gender", the cultural construct linked to sex, would we still have transgender people in the sense that Caitlyn is? That is, if women could play football and men could knit without causing comment, would girls who like football and boys who like to knit ever question what sex they were?

    Re children....the data indicate that kids who for years strongly identify with the gender that differs from their outward sex are not going to change their minds. They will have been "experimenting with their gender" for years before they reach adolescence. If they are approaching adolescence the "best" thing for them is puberty blocking hormone treatment, so that their bodies won't make a shift they will later have to spend a fortune to change out of.

  10. #20
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    Re: Espy awards

    We have completely different reads on the research, especially when it comes to children. I find your statements about children horrifying. Would you propose gastric bypass surgery for a teenager weighing 95 pounds who felt very strongly that she was too fat?

    I think we should separate sex from gender. Maybe that would get us away from this destructive assumption that everything needs to be so political correct - to the point of doing great harm.

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