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Thread: Deflate Gate

  1. #41
    FORT Fogey sueb1961's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Anemic Dog View Post
    It does seem that there are a preponderance of unnamed NFL sources who claim Brady will receive a suspension.

    If so, my guess is that the footballs were altered immediately before the game or after the game started. The NFL rule:

    "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game."

    New England could initially give the Referee a sack of hockey pucks, and it wouldn't be against the rules. But if Brady asked the equipment guy to mess with the footballs after they were checked by the Referee and delivered to the ball attendant, not a good idea.

    Evidence that Brady talked to the equipment people about footballs isn't evidence of a problem. I think this case needs evidence that Brady directed action after the Referee delivered the game balls.


    NFL evidence against Tom Brady in Deflategate - Business Insider

    I could probably believe they were just talking about superbowl balls if the conversations didn't take place 20 minutes after the news broke. That and the other stuff against him like the gifts, lying about know knowing his name, lies about not talking about the investegation, and later admitting they did, not turning over his cell phone.
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  2. #42
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Do you guys think we should start a separate thread about cheating in sports, generally speaking? MsDiva brought up Pete Rose and I think that's a great discussion-should he be banned? What about other sports? That way we could talk there too w/o everything getting off-track here? What do you all think? I'm appreciating everyone's input, too, even if I sound emotional. I apologize-I'm quite thankful to have these threads but I know I can get so passionate it can ne perceived as pushy and I'm not intentionally doing that. Sometimes I have a hard time finding the right words in English and it all comes out clunky. So, if I hurt anyone I apologize. You are all good people.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by sueb1961 View Post
    [/B]

    NFL evidence against Tom Brady in Deflategate - Business Insider

    I could probably believe they were just talking about superbowl balls if the conversations didn't take place 20 minutes after the news broke. That and the other stuff against him like the gifts, lying about know knowing his name, lies about not talking about the investegation, and later admitting they did, not turning over his cell phone.
    I keep going back and forth with each report and interpretations. I don't know anymore. At first I was sure he lied, then I wasn't, then I was, then I wasn't, now I am. I was trying to read the entire report-but I kept getting stuck on the irritating legal speak. I'd like a nice simplified "Yep, he did it." Or No, he did not. AS long as they use terms more than likely there's room for argument between the NFL and Brady and the suspension. But again, for me it comes down to had no one dome anything wrong period, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I could enjoy my football dynasty legacy guilt free.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by sueb1961 View Post
    [/B]

    NFL evidence against Tom Brady in Deflategate - Business Insider

    I could probably believe they were just talking about superbowl balls if the conversations didn't take place 20 minutes after the news broke. That and the other stuff against him like the gifts, lying about know knowing his name, lies about not talking about the investegation, and later admitting they did, not turning over his cell phone.
    If someone wants to argue that Brady didn't hold Jastremski responsible for preparing footballs and ensuring they were less inflated than the ones the "NFL screwed us on", that's a difficult argument.

    If someone wants to argue that Brady cheated, I need to see that he directed Jastremski to deflate the footballs either a) after the referee turned them over to the ball attendant or b) specifically under the legal limit.

    I'm not a Patriots fan, but I do tend to root for teams when I see a lot of hate out there. I also prefer teams that play cleaner football, and Belichick is quick to get rid of players who don't play clean, even talented ones like Brandon Meriweather.

    Lies about not knowing the assistant's name? He knew Jastremski. McNally seems to report to Jastremski and is a part-timer. I don't see why Brady would have to know his name. Jastremski would probably have Brady autograph stuff for his own use, why not add a little for his assistant?

    Not turning over the phone? Because he had that stupid awkward press conference in which he said he didn't have the footballs prepared. That's obviously not true. If he's going to rest his case on that lie, maybe he should be disciplined. I can see a fine for lying about it, but that isn't evidence of cheating.

    Conversations after the news broke? Guilty or not guilty of cheating, he and Jastremski would be very anxious to get the right protocol in place quickly. It's not important that they talked in the QB room - but what they said would be important.

    Gifts? Pro athletes - especially team leaders - are very conscious about tipping team employees who do favors for them.

    I still don't know if Brady cheated. I don't think he should be disciplined for directing Jastremski to prepare footballs with less air than average. The key is whether this went on after the Referee inspected the footballs and whether he wanted them illegally under-inflated.

    A) Preparing under-inflated footballs - no penalty - it's up to the Referee to determine a legal football.
    B) Let air out after the inspection, but still above the limit - probably a fine, because the rules are unclear, and it's still up to the Referee to make an assessment before each play.
    C) Let air out after the inspection, and below the limit - fine and/or suspension, depending on the weather/how much air/etc.

  5. #45
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    I don't know anything about football teams cheating. I'm just following the conversation here and trying to figure it out. But I did check out that list of teams and how many times they were caught cheating. At first it was humbling to see my team's score. But then I noticed SEVEN OTHER TEAMS had higher cheating scores and I felt better.

    I love Baseball!
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  6. #46
    FORT Fogey sueb1961's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    The report did not accuse him of ordering them to do it. it states

    Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls.

  7. #47
    I see what you did there Mah Jongg Solitaire Champion Maveno's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
    I don't know anything about football teams cheating. I'm just following the conversation here and trying to figure it out. But I did check out that list of teams and how many times they were caught cheating. At first it was humbling to see my team's score. But then I noticed SEVEN OTHER TEAMS had higher cheating scores and I felt better.

    I love Baseball!
    Although, I can't watch baseball..only can play, watching it is like watching grass grow. IMHO.

    Thing is about the link I think you're talking about.. I spent a few hours reading last night on there. If someone stomps/steps on someone's leg, is that cheating? Or, simply poor sportsmanship? Low block, poor sportsmanship or cheating? Deflating the balls your team balls to better your grip when there is a minimum requirement for all teams? I dunno...
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  8. #48
    FORT Fogey Badseed's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Goodell's really painted himself into a corner when it comes to punishing Brady. He's set the standrad that domestic abuse is a 2-game suspension, and now, unless he wants to appear to be making light of domestic abuse, he has to give Brady a punishment that's comparatively light to a two game suspension.
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  9. #49
    FORT Fogey sueb1961's Avatar
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Anemic Dog View Post
    If someone wants to argue that Brady didn't hold Jastremski responsible for preparing footballs and ensuring they were less inflated than the ones the "NFL screwed us on", that's a difficult argument.

    If someone wants to argue that Brady cheated, I need to see that he directed Jastremski to deflate the footballs either a) after the referee turned them over to the ball attendant or b) specifically under the legal limit.

    I'm not a Patriots fan, but I do tend to root for teams when I see a lot of hate out there. I also prefer teams that play cleaner football, and Belichick is quick to get rid of players who don't play clean, even talented ones like Brandon Meriweather.

    Lies about not knowing the assistant's name? He knew Jastremski. McNally seems to report to Jastremski and is a part-timer. I don't see why Brady would have to know his name. Jastremski would probably have Brady autograph stuff for his own use, why not add a little for his assistant?

    Not turning over the phone? Because he had that stupid awkward press conference in which he said he didn't have the footballs prepared. That's obviously not true. If he's going to rest his case on that lie, maybe he should be disciplined. I can see a fine for lying about it, but that isn't evidence of cheating.

    Conversations after the news broke? Guilty or not guilty of cheating, he and Jastremski would be very anxious to get the right protocol in place quickly. It's not important that they talked in the QB room - but what they said would be important.

    Gifts? Pro athletes - especially team leaders - are very conscious about tipping team employees who do favors for them.

    I still don't know if Brady cheated. I don't think he should be disciplined for directing Jastremski to prepare footballs with less air than average. The key is whether this went on after the Referee inspected the footballs and whether he wanted them illegally under-inflated.

    A) Preparing under-inflated footballs - no penalty - it's up to the Referee to determine a legal football.
    B) Let air out after the inspection, but still above the limit - probably a fine, because the rules are unclear, and it's still up to the Referee to make an assessment before each play.
    C) Let air out after the inspection, and below the limit - fine and/or suspension, depending on the weather/how much air/etc.

    Jim McNally, Patriots Locker Room Attendant: 5 Fast Facts | Heavy.com

    Tom Brady Threw Those Poor Ball-Deflating Jamokes Under The Bus*

    McNally was with the Patriots for 10 years.

    When interviewed, Brady claimed that, prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally’s name or anything about McNally’s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any responsibilities relating to game balls or the game officials. When asked specifically whether he had spoken with Jastremski about McNally on the night of the Jets game, he stated: “I didn’t know who Jim McNally was so I find it hard to believe I could bring that up.” On this point, Brady’s statement is inconsistent with Jastremski’s statements that Brady knew McNally and made a comment about McNally during the Jets game when complaining about the game balls.
    That’s cold! The report itself calls this out as “not plausible and contradicted by other evidence.” Like, for example, these text messages where Jastremski mentions Brady talking about McNally:

    Tom Brady Threw Those Poor Ball-Deflating Jamokes Under The Bus

  10. #50
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    Re: Deflate Gate

    NFL calls headline about Brady suspension 'misleading'


    The NFL may ultimately suspend New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for his involvement in the Deflategate scandal, but the league does not want people to think a decision has already been made.

    On Friday, a report from Gary Myers of the NY Daily News said Brady is going to be suspended and an announcement could come next week. Myers cited unnamed sources who have “a good sense of what goes on” at the NFL’s headquarters.

    But on Saturday, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello insisted the league has not yet made a decision and addressed Myers’ report directly.

    “It is Gary Myers’ prediction,” Aiello wrote in an email to Boston.com. “The headline is misleading.”
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