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Thread: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

  1. #531
    I Bleed Scarlet And Gray FireWoman's Avatar
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by PugMum;3172532;
    If it is found that He, or any of the team, is under age, not only will they (He) be banned from the sport but also shunned by the family and country for causing shame to their "great" nation.
    Which is why I feel for her :/
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  2. #532
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Has anyone been watching the Olympics on NBC's website? I downloaded the software and am trying to watch replays but nothing happens. Anyone been successful or had problems??
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  3. #533
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossingGuard;3171927;
    Because I know that a guy in some sport won the bronze but was later stripped of his medal after he threw it down to floor, saying that if it wasn't gold, then it's a failure. But the 4th place person wasn't bumped up.
    It was a Swedish wrestler who did this, and like Leo said in wrestling two people get bronze, the other guy got his, and Ara Abrahamian's was stripped.

    However, it wasn't just a case of a bad loser not wanting the bronze, it was a protest against the international wrestling association (FILA). There were some suspect things in his semi-final.

    The Italian guy, Minguzzi, won the first round. In the second one, at 1-1, Ara is in parterre position (Italian on top). The match leader (the ref on the mat) gives one point to Minguzzi since he felt Abrahamian ignored a warning. But the two other judges don't agree and it's still 1-1. Abrahamian is still on floor. He moves to the edge of the circle (very common in wrestling, in fact Minguzzi did this in the first round as well). Abrahamian manages to hold Minguzzi away, is awarded the last point of the round and thus wins it.

    In preparation for the third and final round the match leader calls up Minguzzi to declare him the winner, out of the blue. The Swedish team declares a video screening and all three judges say they have given a point to Minguzzi because Abrahamian did a not allowed blocking. However, neither of them gave this point during the match, they all changed their minds after the round. Two hours later, the Swedish leaders have a meeting with the judges who now say Abrahamian lost the game because he tried to flee the mat, when he moved towards the edge (still, very common). So the reason for his loss had been changed in two hours and neither reason was penalised for during the game.

    Abrahamian thought of not doing the bronze match at all, but decided to do so to use it as a protest to show the corruption in the association. .The matter isn't over yet, FILA has been reported to Court of Arbitration for Sport. The Swedish team doesn't want the medals to be changed, they want to put FILA under investigation, because the whole situation was weird.

    If it's right or wrong is anyone's call, if there is a right or wrong in this situation. I just wanted to share what had happened (out of the eyes of Swedish newspapers), that it wasn't just about being a sore loser, it was a protest.

    (Sorry for the long post )

  4. #534
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Yeah, so I know it's very late in Cali right now and I know I have school tomorrow (or today), but I couldn't help but stay up to watch men's indoor volleyball. Is there anyone else following volleyball in the Olympics (beach and indoor) like I am? Cause they're both great to watch. And the best part? USA has made the finals in all events! Kerri & Misty won the women's beach volleyball final, and they were later followed by Phil & Matt who won the men's beach volleyball earlier today (or yesterday). Congrats to them, I thought their final was a great match.

    Adding to that, 2 days ago, USA beat Cuba in an amazing comeback (and I say it's a comeback because Cuba was the only team that beat them in the past) to make the finals of women's indoor volleyball. Their final match is tomorrow, I can't wait! And just now, USA defeated Russia in an intense match to make men's indoor volleyball finals. And if you watched it, then you know what I mean when I say "intense". I really thought that they had it in the bag very early on after winning the first 2 sets. But then Russia came back and won the next 2 sets. Thankfully they pulled it off and won on the last set.

    About track & field: yeah, USA seems to be really off this year. I mean, we've had our athletes that have shined. USA has swept the 100 m hurdle and the 400 m run, but there still have been many upsets for us. There was Lolo Jones who lost because she tripped on the 9th hurdle. Then there was Richards who was the favorite in her event, but only managed to get 3rd (I don't know if I should say "only" because 3rd is great, but still). And now we have both the men's team and women's team for the 4x100 m run who both dropped their baton! I found that so... astonishing.

    And did anyone else catch the interview with Wariner after he failed to defend his gold medal (he got silver)? Immediately after the interviewer asked him if he regretted switching coaches, Warnier just said "no" and walked away. The interviewer must have hit a soft spot.

    And here's a shocking update: USA lost to Japan in the softball finals. My face literally looked like this -> when I found out. USA was the clear favorite to win since they have won every time, but they shockingly lost to Japan at the end. I didn't watch the game so I don't know every detail, but all I know is that Japan won the gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo;3172094;
    Historically, at the Olympic level when an individual is disqualified so is the entire team. There aren't that many examples (one from 1968, one from 1972, two from 2000), but it's been the same treatment in all cases.
    Thanks for answering my questions, Leo. Bob Costas later on confirmed these facts on the primetime broadcast. Nastia would get the gold in the uneven bars if He really was underage, and Team USA would also get the gold in the team event.

    But it doesn't look like it will happen: Gymnasts' parents "indignant" over age questions - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports

    Quote Originally Posted by femme fatale;3172880;
    It was a Swedish wrestler who did this, and like Leo said in wrestling two people get bronze, the other guy got his, and Ara Abrahamian's was stripped.

    However, it wasn't just a case of a bad loser not wanting the bronze, it was a protest against the international wrestling association (FILA). There were some suspect things in his semi-final.

    The Italian guy, Minguzzi, won the first round. In the second one, at 1-1, Ara is in parterre position (Italian on top). The match leader (the ref on the mat) gives one point to Minguzzi since he felt Abrahamian ignored a warning. But the two other judges don't agree and it's still 1-1. Abrahamian is still on floor. He moves to the edge of the circle (very common in wrestling, in fact Minguzzi did this in the first round as well). Abrahamian manages to hold Minguzzi away, is awarded the last point of the round and thus wins it.

    In preparation for the third and final round the match leader calls up Minguzzi to declare him the winner, out of the blue. The Swedish team declares a video screening and all three judges say they have given a point to Minguzzi because Abrahamian did a not allowed blocking. However, neither of them gave this point during the match, they all changed their minds after the round. Two hours later, the Swedish leaders have a meeting with the judges who now say Abrahamian lost the game because he tried to flee the mat, when he moved towards the edge (still, very common). So the reason for his loss had been changed in two hours and neither reason was penalised for during the game.

    Abrahamian thought of not doing the bronze match at all, but decided to do so to use it as a protest to show the corruption in the association. .The matter isn't over yet, FILA has been reported to Court of Arbitration for Sport. The Swedish team doesn't want the medals to be changed, they want to put FILA under investigation, because the whole situation was weird.

    If it's right or wrong is anyone's call, if there is a right or wrong in this situation. I just wanted to share what had happened (out of the eyes of Swedish newspapers), that it wasn't just about being a sore loser, it was a protest.

    (Sorry for the long post )
    I wasn't really looking for a response to my wrestling comment, but I'm glad you did tell me what's going on. Sorry for the mix-up. Now I officially know why he slammed his bronze to the ground.
    Last edited by CrossingGuard; 08-22-2008 at 07:21 AM.
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  5. #535
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossingGuard;3173018;
    I wasn't really looking for a response to my wrestling comment, but I'm glad you did tell me what's going on. Sorry for the mix-up. Now I officially know why he slammed his bronze to the ground.
    I didn't mean to target you specifically, I've seen that others have commented on this as well, I just used your post as a segue. It's made big headlines here, and we've gotten analyses of everything too many times (IMO). I haven't seen so much of it in foreign media.
    Last edited by femme fatale; 08-22-2008 at 08:00 AM.

  6. #536
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    I agree with you about seeing more fencing and shooting. I've seen a bit of equestrian...and Canada won a gold medal

    Quote Originally Posted by myrosiedog;3172070;
    I agree and I would have liked to have seen more of the equestrian events as well as some of the fencing and shooting.

    If one girl gets disqualified for age from the Chinese team, I would think that they all would lose their medals.

    Didn't Marion Jones' teammates lose their medals too when she was found guilty of doping this past year in the Sydney games?
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  7. #537
    Leo
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossingGuard;3173018;
    Thanks for answering my questions, Leo. Bob Costas later on confirmed these facts on the primetime broadcast. Nastia would get the gold in the uneven bars if He really was underage, and Team USA would also get the gold in the team event.

    But it doesn't look like it will happen: Gymnasts' parents "indignant" over age questions - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports
    If the IOC and/or the relevant federation actually do anything, I'd be shocked. Take a look at Wikipedia - in all the known cases to date, there's been only one case where they actually did anything. My prediction? The sports federation will say, "no conclusive evidence" in a few months, probably on a quiet Friday afternoon.

    And as for that interviews with the parents - of course they'd say that. This is, after all, China we're dealing with. The "re-education" camps aren't that far away.

  8. #538
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossingGuard;3173018;


    Thanks for answering my questions, Leo. Bob Costas later on confirmed these facts on the primetime broadcast. Nastia would get the gold in the uneven bars if He really was underage, and Team USA would also get the gold in the team event.

    But it doesn't look like it will happen: Gymnasts' parents "indignant" over age questions - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports

    I love it-- asking the Chinese government to supply more proof, amid evidence that they've tried to purge and alter documents on the internet (so they're clearly trying to cover their tracks), knowing full well that if the passports have indeed been falsified, the government itself is the responsible party. If the government wants to cheat so badly that they will falsify passports, the IOC thinks that they won't also falsify birth certificates and ID cards? Really?

  9. #539
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    Quote Originally Posted by Missyboxers;3173062;
    I love it-- asking the Chinese government to supply more proof, amid evidence that they've tried to purge and alter documents on the internet (so they're clearly trying to cover their tracks), knowing full well that if the passports have indeed been falsified, the government itself is the responsible party. If the government wants to cheat so badly that they will falsify passports, the IOC thinks that they won't also falsify birth certificates and ID cards? Really?
    It is a catch-22 isn't it? I agree with you that its rather silly to expect the body that has apparently been a part of the cheating (the Chinese government) to be honest and upfront with information in the investigation. But the government is where you'd go to get documents on a person's birth / age. Where else would you go?

  10. #540
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    Re: Summer Olympics: Beijing, China

    I was channel surfing last night trying to find tae kwon do. Didn't find any. But I did see the last few minutes of that gymnastics movie "Stick It" and whose little face did I see? Nastia's! I had heard she had a role in there but it was so funny to see her!

    I remember seeing a segment on 20/20 or one of those news shows about how there are passport brokers all over the world who work for the country's goverments and if you pay them enough, you can get a passport to say whatever you want. It was a story about how terrorists get access to countries etc. So, since the Chinese government issued these passports and IDs, it doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch to think that they could put whatever information they wanted to on those passports.

    I am starting to have trepidation about the punishment that is going to happen--not just on the athletes, but on the reporters who reported in 2006 and 2007 that He was whatever age. I have a feeling that some of them will be punished for reporting "incorrectly" on her age back then and bringing all this attention to her age now, which they will insist is correct.

    None of these little girls are wealthy and neither are their parents. They have improved lives because of their status of elite gymnasts. I don't see how they could've orchestrated any of this themselves without help from the government. They will make a scapegoat out of someone though, and it worries me a little.

    At least even if it's not fair that the U.S. women got a team silver instead of the gold, they get to return home to live in America. I know that that may not seem like much of a consolation, but I'd so much rather "lose" and come home to live in the U.S than to win -- however it's accomplished -- and live in China.

    I wish that the judges would all be punished for their ridiculous and totally imperfect judging. Sheesh!

    ETA: I was surprised that they aired all of the speed walking races last night but not my beloved tae kwon do. I can't help it--I'm sure those athletes are amazing but how did this event become an Olympic event?
    Last edited by Lois Lane; 08-22-2008 at 11:09 AM.

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