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Thread: Smoking Gun ID's the Cubs game-wrecker

  1. #11
    Leo
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    The Cubs just plain reacted wrong to the whole thing. They shouldn't have allowed one missed out to unnerve the entire team.

  2. #12
    It ain't easy being green Wayner's Avatar
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    Joeguy, there's no way it was 12 feet about the field - Alou had a very good chance to catch that ball.

    However, it's nuts that anyone blames this poor guy for the Cubs losing the series. How about Alex Gonzalez booting a double-play ball in the 8th? How about Dusty Baker overusing his two best pitchers?

    Personally, I think Baker is a very good manager, but he has a propensity for killing the arms of his starters. In the Atlanta series, he let Prior throw 133 pitches over 9 innings in a 3-1 win. Prior's next start, he let Prior pitch into the 8th in a 12-3 win, throwing 116 pitches. Is it any wonder that he didn't quite have the same stuff when the 8th inning rolled around on Tuesday?

    Baker's treatment of Wood was no better. Before last night he'd thrown 124, 117, adn 109 pitches. And it showed last night - he never had his dominating stuff last night. Yet Baker still left him out there to throw 117 pitches. Forget that Prior and Wood hadn't lost back-to-back starts all season: Baker killed his team's chances right there.

    Where were Clement and Zambrano? They were rested. They could have come in to pitch in the 5th when it was clear that Wood was faltering. McKeon brought in starters Penny and Beckett, because in a Game 7 - every pitcher on your staff except the guy that started yesterday is available.

    So, if the Cub fans want to get mad and put blame somewhere, Baker had a lot more to do with their team losing that series than the fan in the stands.

  3. #13
    King of the world holiday's Avatar
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    I partially blame Baker for the game 7 loss too. When Wood got in trouble early in the 5th he should have been gone. He got the adrenaline boost after his homer and made up for the first inning (with a solid 2,3,4) but the pitch count was too high, his breaking ball was weak, and he needed to go quick in the fifth. Clement should have come in.

    Game 6 loss I mostly blame on the fan interference. Yeah a whole bunch of people reached for the ball, and all these other plays happened after it, but regardless that 1 guy tipped it, Alou missed it, first and third 1 out. It was a momentum swinger. Florida fed off of it, and the Cubs all got too worked up over it and got rattled. It was just like in game 4 of the Florida/ San Fran series when Cruz dropped the pop up in the 11th and Florida rallied with 2 runs to win. Stuff like that changes games and imo it definatly contributed heavily to all the events that followed in that inning.

    Don't forget though Bernie Mack is being blamed quite a bit too, lol. Lot of people are mad that when he sang 'Take me out to the ballgame' during the stretch he said 'root root root for the Champions' .. aha

  4. #14
    Can They Do It?? mrdobolina's Avatar
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    Joeguy, I have to take issue with your calling Cub fans "a$$hole"s. I think you would see things a little differently if the Braves were as futile as the Cubs have been for the past 95 years. Of course we are going to give this guy some heat. Death threats are definetly uncalled for, but some heat is warranted. Keep your head in the game. This is(was) the post season. Every opportunity for an out is an opportunity to go farther...to erase the curse, to win. The sad thing is, that was the 2nd time in the series a Cub fan got in the way of a player making an out on a foul ball.
    "You don't own a TV?!? What's all your furniture pointed at?" Joey Tribianni

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  5. #15
    RESIDENT JEDI MASTER Stargazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeguy
    the A$$hole cub fans are over reacting. so was Alou.

    To be fair to Alou, he later said that he did overreact. He said he (I'm paraphrasing but this is the gist of it) felt bad for the guy. He said every fan comes to the ballpark looking for a souvenier and its just instinct to reach up and grab the ball.
    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."- Yoda

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  6. #16
    a jumble of useless facts gracie's Avatar
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    Being married to a major Cub fan, I've heard a lot of the ranting and raving first hand and you have to feel for the guy. To think that a baseball game could ruin his life!! I heard on the radio a little while ago that he even got a death threat spelled out on a pizza he ordered!!

    Come on Chicago, it's over and done with. Get a life!!
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  7. #17
    RESIDENT JEDI MASTER Stargazer's Avatar
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    Sports are a wonderful thing. They foster pride, teamwork and sportsmanship in children and adults. However, I'm starting to worry about priorities in this country of late. Death threats against a man for catching a foul ball? Death threats again't a woman who accused a basketball player of rape (before it even goes to trial)? Fans like that are C-R-A-Z-Y.
    It's alright to be upset that the guy messed up. It's alright to not believe the girl that accused Kobe. I just have problems with the fans that don't keep things in perspective.
    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."- Yoda

    "I'll just see where Providence takes me and try to look like I got there confidently." - Craig Ferguson

  8. #18
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer401
    To be fair to Alou, he later said that he did overreact.
    I'm glad he took some responsibility because (and I've said this in the baseball thread) I attribute the Cubs' poor play after that foul ball to his reaction and not the fan's. If he hadn't gone completely berserk about it, do you think the other Cubs players would have been as tense? I mean, immediately following Alou's outrageous display of unprofessionalism, Prior threw the 3-2 pitch into the dirt and the catcher let it get by him all the way to the screen. And, of course, Gonzalez's botched double-play ball is the real play that lost the Series for the Cubs. His mishandling of that ball is the "Buckner-esque" boot of the game that baseball historians should look back on when they dissect this series. But the perversity of human nature seems to compel more people to assign blame to this poor fan. I can't help but think about how excited he must have felt that morning to have such great seats at Game 6 of the NLCS. And now his life is an ongoing nightmare because people won't let it go. It's really Alou (for his reaction) and especially Gonzalez that should be suffering the torture the fan is going through right now.
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

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  9. #19
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
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    My take on this is: when you're a fan there is an unwritten rule that you shouldn't go for balls that can still be "in play", especially if your team can benefit from it. You mess up? Man you're a jackass. But life goes on. You go home from the game feeling sorry and the next day or week you resume your life. What sucks about this is that life doesn't just go on for this poor guy. Mostly because of any news organization revealing his name for wackos to take advantage of.

    However, the more important point is that I pity the Cubs fans who don't mind making one guy's life miserable because of something that happened that isn't even his fault. The Cubs lost the ball game. Get over it, the guy is sorry, let him live. Note: this isn't directed at any of you of course, mostly the crazy fans who take their fandom into negative territory which should never be done.
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  10. #20
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    Good points, Zaius. What's especially sad for this poor guy is that he himself is a big Cubs fan. Even if the rest of the world did leave him alone (which they should), he'll be plagued enough with memories of what he did and what it meant to his favorite team. That's just awful.
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

    Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

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