Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!)

mbcrowder · 07-18-2008, 10:52 AM

OK, we've been clamoring for good judging for a while, and the show finally brings us what seems to be the ideal judge. Based on what I've read on other threads, Lil C is getting nearly unanimous props from posters here.

This show has a LOT going for it. But for some reason the permanent judges are starting to become caricatures of themselves. Numerous posters mention that they fast forward or mute when Mary's judging. Numerous posters have expressed their opinion of the yuckiness (for lack of a better word) of Nigel's constant commentary on the girl's outfits or bodies, and the sexual innuendo.

Lil C was PERFECT, and should be a constant fixture on the panel when he's not choreographing. Succinct, constructive feedback. Commentaries on what could be better without denigrating or insulting the contestant. Feedback that helps the VIEWER also - noticing things we might not have noticed or aren't trained to notice - both in the positive and negative.

MOST of the temporary judges are helpful (although none reach Lil C's level based on the one time we've seen him). A few are overly gushy and think EVERYONE is amazing, but most judges are good (to me, Dan, Mandy, and Tyce have done well in the past - the weakest would be the two hiphop girls, I can't remember their names, and Mia - who is SOMETIMES helpful, but often brings obviously preconceived opinions of the dancers out and is often quite rude)

One might be tempted to look at Nigel's other show - AI - and point out that having 3 fixture judges works there. The biggest difference is that on that show - 99% of the viewers can recognize good or great singing when they hear it. On this show, we need the input of judges who understand dance.

What this show desperately needs is TWO rotating judges (I'd say 3, but I would assume that Nigel's keeping his permanent slot ... and of the two semi-permanent judges, he's by far the better). And the rotating judges need to give us REAL feedback. We don't need to hear screaming and yelling. We don't need meaningless feedback like "Yeah, I'm sorry. That just didn't do it for me. Was that the kind of dance we expect? No it wasn't."

I will say this, though ... compared to the other "dance" show on a major network, this show is two steps ahead on the judging. But it could be SO much better.

(PS - if you're going to continue to stick us with Mary, please get her to be more constructive, and less over the top. As I've said elsewhere, she's become a caricature of herself).

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Gala62 · 07-18-2008, 11:46 AM

I'm pretty sure the first season had Nigel as a permanent judge and then 2 rotating guest judges and I think it worked out very well. Bring it back TPTB!!

I don't like Dan though, even more skanky than Nigel by far. Adam is almost as good as Lil C but gets a little too carried away. Debbie Allen gushes way too much, but once in awhile she's cute. Too bad they felt she couldn't be on the show. Mia, Mia, Mia. Too invested or something. She can't help but trash the ones she doesn't like and slobbers over the ones she does (Danny = stallion! lol)

To be fair, while I did LOVE Lil C, some of his remarks were a bit ....shall we say... "out there"? Overall, though, the best hands down.

One other thing...the judges (NIGEL) need to stop critiquing the costumes as part of their remarks to the dancers. They don't have a thing to say about it, so why make negative remarks to them about costuming?

mbcrowder · 07-18-2008, 06:26 PM

Agreed fully on Debbie. And Nigel with the costumes.

superfly · 07-18-2008, 08:03 PM

Mary is actually a very good judge when she's not senile.

mbcrowder · 07-21-2008, 12:58 PM

I can tell Mary has the talent to be a good judge of dancing. Her opinions of the dancing are not what bother everyone. It's her presentation of those opinions that are completely ridiculous.

**fluff** · 07-21-2008, 01:28 PM

I was very impressed by Lil C.
I think I very much underestimated his ability to deliver a meaningful critique of dance styles other than his own.

BaseballMomof4 · 07-21-2008, 01:59 PM

Lil C needs to invest in a dictionary. His improper word use is embarrassing. Other than that, his commentary seems fair and doesn't get "over the top".

Mary's screeching is borderline unbearable at times. I have taken to using the mute button when it is her turn.

Mia is doing an interesting Simon Cowell impression this year, her harshness is a bit over the top.

I like the hip hop guy, can't remember his name, he is generally fair and doesn't get crazy or unnecessarily harsh.

The two hip hop girls were a waste of time.

mbcrowder · 07-21-2008, 03:22 PM

BM4 - what improper word use bugged you?

The hiphop guy i think you're referring to is Shane Sparks, and he's off on another show now (although he did pitch in with a group number early in the season).

BaseballMomof4 · 07-21-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

BM4 - what improper word use bugged you?

The hiphop guy i think you're referring to is Shane Sparks, and he's off on another show now (although he did pitch in with a group number early in the season).

I can't remember right at this moment what word he used, but it was a sound alike for the correct word, but had a totally different meaning. I just remember it stopped me in my tracks and I was like - "what did he just say?"

UncleDavid noticed the same thing, I just read his post about it in another thread.

weary · 07-21-2008, 10:29 PM

L'il C isn't the only one to use a word that just sounds close instead of the proper word. It happens so often on tv and radio, it drives me crazy. Still, it's hard to speak off-the-cuff on national television, and I don't want to discourage him from attempting to elevate the vocabulary some.

07-18-2008, 10:52 AM	#1
mbcrowder FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 40 Posts: 821	Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) OK, we've been clamoring for good judging for a while, and the show finally brings us what seems to be the ideal judge. Based on what I've read on other threads, Lil C is getting nearly unanimous props from posters here. This show has a LOT going for it. But for some reason the permanent judges are starting to become caricatures of themselves. Numerous posters mention that they fast forward or mute when Mary's judging. Numerous posters have expressed their opinion of the yuckiness (for lack of a better word) of Nigel's constant commentary on the girl's outfits or bodies, and the sexual innuendo. Lil C was PERFECT, and should be a constant fixture on the panel when he's not choreographing. Succinct, constructive feedback. Commentaries on what could be better without denigrating or insulting the contestant. Feedback that helps the VIEWER also - noticing things we might not have noticed or aren't trained to notice - both in the positive and negative. MOST of the temporary judges are helpful (although none reach Lil C's level based on the one time we've seen him). A few are overly gushy and think EVERYONE is amazing, but most judges are good (to me, Dan, Mandy, and Tyce have done well in the past - the weakest would be the two hiphop girls, I can't remember their names, and Mia - who is SOMETIMES helpful, but often brings obviously preconceived opinions of the dancers out and is often quite rude) One might be tempted to look at Nigel's other show - AI - and point out that having 3 fixture judges works there. The biggest difference is that on that show - 99% of the viewers can recognize good or great singing when they hear it. On this show, we need the input of judges who understand dance. What this show desperately needs is TWO rotating judges (I'd say 3, but I would assume that Nigel's keeping his permanent slot ... and of the two semi-permanent judges, he's by far the better). And the rotating judges need to give us REAL feedback. We don't need to hear screaming and yelling. We don't need meaningless feedback like "Yeah, I'm sorry. That just didn't do it for me. Was that the kind of dance we expect? No it wasn't." I will say this, though ... compared to the other "dance" show on a major network, this show is two steps ahead on the judging. But it could be SO much better. (PS - if you're going to continue to stick us with Mary, please get her to be more constructive, and less over the top. As I've said elsewhere, she's become a caricature of herself). __________________ ---Mike

07-18-2008, 11:46 AM	#2
Gala62 FORT Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hopefully near a spa Posts: 483	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) I'm pretty sure the first season had Nigel as a permanent judge and then 2 rotating guest judges and I think it worked out very well. Bring it back TPTB!! I don't like Dan though, even more skanky than Nigel by far. Adam is almost as good as Lil C but gets a little too carried away. Debbie Allen gushes way too much, but once in awhile she's cute. Too bad they felt she couldn't be on the show. Mia, Mia, Mia. Too invested or something. She can't help but trash the ones she doesn't like and slobbers over the ones she does (Danny = stallion! lol) To be fair, while I did LOVE Lil C, some of his remarks were a bit ....shall we say... "out there"? Overall, though, the best hands down. One other thing...the judges (NIGEL) need to stop critiquing the costumes as part of their remarks to the dancers. They don't have a thing to say about it, so why make negative remarks to them about costuming? __________________ YES we can! Barack Obama

07-18-2008, 06:26 PM	#3
mbcrowder FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 40 Posts: 821	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) Agreed fully on Debbie. And Nigel with the costumes. __________________ ---Mike

07-18-2008, 08:03 PM	#4
superfly Big Blue - Tayshaun! Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,540	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) Mary is actually a very good judge when she's not senile.

07-21-2008, 12:58 PM	#5
mbcrowder FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 40 Posts: 821	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) I can tell Mary has the talent to be a good judge of dancing. Her opinions of the dancing are not what bother everyone. It's her presentation of those opinions that are completely ridiculous. __________________ ---Mike

07-21-2008, 01:28 PM	#6
fluff Why can't we just rewind? Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 40,404	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) I was very impressed by Lil C. I think I very much underestimated his ability to deliver a meaningful critique of dance styles other than his own. __________________ "That's Numberwang!"

07-21-2008, 01:59 PM	#7
BaseballMomof4 FORT Fan Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 251	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) Lil C needs to invest in a dictionary. His improper word use is embarrassing. Other than that, his commentary seems fair and doesn't get "over the top". Mary's screeching is borderline unbearable at times. I have taken to using the mute button when it is her turn. Mia is doing an interesting Simon Cowell impression this year, her harshness is a bit over the top. I like the hip hop guy, can't remember his name, he is generally fair and doesn't get crazy or unnecessarily harsh. The two hip hop girls were a waste of time.

07-21-2008, 03:22 PM	#8
mbcrowder FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 40 Posts: 821	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) BM4 - what improper word use bugged you? The hiphop guy i think you're referring to is Shane Sparks, and he's off on another show now (although he did pitch in with a group number early in the season). __________________ ---Mike

07-21-2008, 10:29 PM	#10
weary FORT Fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 160	Re: Best Judges - (Read this, TPTB! Nigel, this means you!) L'il C isn't the only one to use a word that just sounds close instead of the proper word. It happens so often on tv and radio, it drives me crazy. Still, it's hard to speak off-the-cuff on national television, and I don't want to discourage him from attempting to elevate the vocabulary some.