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Thread: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

  1. #81
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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanachocolate;3601972;
    Whenever art is involved, be it dance, writing, music, art - there is always the component of personal involvement. To some extent, whenever an artist creates something they are lending bits and pieces of themselves to the work...
    I find myself agreeing with every point you make here. And that was a great short essay on the relationship between the artist's own experience and their art.

    I think what I am reacting to is the tension between the dual functions of this show. On the one hand we have SYTYCD the Dance TV Show that exposes America to new talent, forms of dance and ways of expressing ourselves. Tyce's number fits that show really well, and I'm so glad it's there and people had the chance to see it and experience it.

    But, on the other hand we have SYTYCD the Dance Competition. And it is in that context that I find the piece manipulative and out of place. It clouds the view of judges and voters trying to find the best dancer, and instead forces us to take in the life journey of the choreographer. And a dance competition is supposed to be about the dancers.

    Nigel is certainly aware of the dilemma, and has decided that when art and pure competition are in conflict, he wants to favor art. It will give him the better TV show. And that's an acceptable view, but you have to take note of what you are giving up when you go that direction. You are throwing a big statistical curve into your voting results.

    So, OK. Maybe this is just supposed to be a good TV show that uses a "dance competition" motif to drive it along.

    On a side note - this really puts the lie to all those folks who swear that Nigel & Company are throwing this or that person under the bus and trying to manipulate the results. Because when you allow something like this dance in the mix, it is a huge wild card. There is no way to predict how the results will come out when you pull emotional strings like this. Nigel's hands are pretty much off the wheel and however it comes out, he's fine with it. After all, he gains nothing from these dancers once the tour is over; the only thing that lasts for him is the reputation of the show. Which a number like this enhances.

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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    After tonight, I think the judges favorites are Janette, Jeanine, Kayla, and Brandon. If they could, they probably would eliminate two guys just to get all of them in the F4.

    The weakest couple tonight was Evan/Janette, simply because she overshadowed him. As for the strongest couple, I would have to say Jason/Kayla. Before you guys say I'm biased, I think having two solid routines is better than having one really good routine and one really meh routine. That was the case for Brandon/Jeanine and Ade/Melissa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;3601480;
    Is something wrong with me? 'Cause while the actual dancers weren't that bad, why did that piece strike me as SO fricken lame?
    Because it's broadway, the most boring out of all the dances on this show. But IMO, this piece wasn't that bad. It was actually quite enjoyable, and definitely better than the other pieces that went before it. And I agree with the judges that it showcased both Jason and Kayla very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gala62;3601606;
    "There's daananananaanncing" gotta love Ellen!

    And there's the scream/train back
    I loved that. Ellen certainly knew that she was out of place at the judges' table, but at least she acknowledged that. But I enjoyed her, she brought some good laughs.

    Jordin Sparks and SYTYCD go together like peanut butter and jelly. But why, everytime they use her songs, do the pieces always have to be army related?

    I love Laurieann, ever since the Making the Band days. "Boom-kak!"
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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I love Jason and Kayla! They're the strongest couple of the night. Though, I don't like Shane Spark's hip hop routine. I just basically don't like hip hop, unless they're being choreograph by Tabitha and Napoleon.

    I just don't like the chem between Brandon and Jeanine... as for Janette, I seriously don't like her. lol. She was okay when she was partnered up with Brandon. when she's not, she kinda sucks... *shrugs*

    When it comes to solo, I think Evan is at the top, really. He's really good at his own dance.

    The routines for tonight wasn't all great, eh? Though I love Sonya Tayeh's Jazz routine. I never really dislike any of her work so far. She's very unique. lol

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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    In re: the above comments about the mix of art and execution, I sure wish they would do again what they did when all the dancers had to dance Wade's number to "Waiting for the World to Change" so we can have a common denominator with which to measure the dancers. Granted it was only one style, but it gave us a chance to see how each dancer performed the same dance to the same music. The so called "luck of the draw" in choreographers can seriously skew the dancer's impressions on the voters. Great dancing of mediocre choreography does not usually beat out mediocre dancing of great choreography. It's sad that the dancers are stuck in whatever style/music/weird costuming they draw. And of course, we all know that some choreographers are better than others!

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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebella;3602876;
    I sure wish they would do again what they did when all the dancers had to dance Wade's number to "Waiting for the World to Change" so we can have a common denominator with which to measure the dancers.
    Great idea! I had totally forgotten that. I agree, it makes it a LOT easier to judge the dancers when they do the same routine.

    Looking forward to tonight's show - it should be amazing. (well maybe other than having Katie Holmes on the show).

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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Even though the Cancer Dance was an emotional piece, I didn't feel Tyce overplayed the backstory (was there any backstory?), not like Mia did with her dead father piece. So I was able to enjoy the dancing as is. I mean, not every dancer could have pulled this off, so in that respect, it WAS all about the level of dancing for me. Bravo again to Melissa, Ade and Tyce.

    During my voting last night, it was very easy to get through on Jeanine's line so I won't be surprised to see her in B2. Hope she doesn't go. Melissa MIGHT be. Do they have the fans to pick up for them or are fans only voting for their previous favorites and not crossing "lines"? It's late in the game, so it's possible she and Ade might be in trouble. Sorry, Evan is cute but he needs to go but probably won't. VERY tough to call! I agree there are going to be some surprises tonight!
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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    ^There aren't as many votes that are cast for this show as with American Idol or Dancing with the Stars. The show pulls in 7-9 million each episode (which is pretty good for a summer show), and probably half of that 7-9 million are voting. Not very many people are inclined to vote, for some reason. I know I wasn't; I've just been voting recently. So yeah, you shouldn't worry about Jeanine not getting any busy signals.

    But then again, Top8 is the shocker elimination week. Allison in S2, Sara in S3, Will in S4. People are expecting Kayla or Melissa or Ade or Jason to go home, but we may see a Brandon/Janette elimination. Who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebella;3602876;
    In re: the above comments about the mix of art and execution, I sure wish they would do again what they did when all the dancers had to dance Wade's number to "Waiting for the World to Change" so we can have a common denominator with which to measure the dancers. Granted it was only one style, but it gave us a chance to see how each dancer performed the same dance to the same music. The so called "luck of the draw" in choreographers can seriously skew the dancer's impressions on the voters. Great dancing of mediocre choreography does not usually beat out mediocre dancing of great choreography. It's sad that the dancers are stuck in whatever style/music/weird costuming they draw. And of course, we all know that some choreographers are better than others!
    The thing with this is that the routine gets old fast. I think it's a great way to compare each dancer and who's a step above the rest, but I just got sick of that whole routine by the end of the show. I was sick of the song, sick of the moves, and sick of that damn scream they had to do. So even though I loved the idea, I didn't enjoy watching it. I think it would be better to do in the Top4 or the Top6 though, since there are lesser people.
    Last edited by CrossingGuard; 07-23-2009 at 08:07 AM.
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  8. #88
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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCatDC;3602295;
    But, on the other hand we have SYTYCD the Dance Competition. And it is in that context that I find the piece manipulative and out of place. It clouds the view of judges and voters trying to find the best dancer, and instead forces us to take in the life journey of the choreographer. And a dance competition is supposed to be about the dancers.

    Nigel is certainly aware of the dilemma, and has decided that when art and pure competition are in conflict, he wants to favor art. It will give him the better TV show. And that's an acceptable view, but you have to take note of what you are giving up when you go that direction. You are throwing a big statistical curve into your voting results.

    The show has never seriously purported itself to be a competition. indeed, Nigel emphasizes every season the fact that the premise is to pick America's favorite dancer. If it was truly a competition, there would be objectivity in the judging based on a published scoring platform, there would be no audience involvement at all and each routine would have to meet certain criteria in terms of performance. Dancing With the Stars is more of a competition along these terms as it does have, albeit skewed and odd, scoring system in place. If this were to be seriously taken as a competition, we would be seeing things more along the lines of ice skating and gymnastics where there are points awarded for elements done and how well they were executed, for the difficulty and for overall appearance. As it stands, SYTYCD has none of that. A varyiing panel of 'judges' who offer critiques and who at this point have no real say in who stays or who goes home.

    Another point I was trying to make that may have been lost is the fact that yes, emotional choreography can pull at a viewers heartstrings and may get them to pick up a phone more often - but if that choreography is danced badly, then the whole heartstring tug is nil because the viewer simply won't care.

    Also, on a final point, as I have said previously, at this point people have their favorites and that is who they are going to vote for - a poignant routine will not really sway them if it is danced by a couple they do not like.
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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I have info from a friend of Tyce's: It's dedicated 2 brave & amazing women fighting later stage breast cancer & their husbands who stand by them throughout it all.

    The ending is the man "holding her up, being her strength and her reason to keep fighting."

    One of the 2 women is his close friend. The other (or both) are members of FORCE. Facing Our Risk of Cancer Empowered is a fantastic organization for people with hereditary cancer or have a risk of heredity cancer, like being BRCA positive ("the breast cancer gene mutation"). BRCA mutations greatly increase the risk of ovarian, breast, prostate, melanoma & pancreatic cancers. I'm not allowed yet to post the link of the site w/o approval

    He did do a lot of research for the piece and consulted with these women and the founder of FORCE.

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    Re: 7/22 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    So, as I see it, here is how the who, what and when effects the voting tonight (please don't get angry, these may or may not be MY opinions, just stating what I see as the general consensus for many of these folks):::

    Melissa- has been in the bottom 2 (often a sign that they have a smaller fanbase and will go soon). Emotional routine could garner extra votes. Probably most memorable dance of the evening since it was performed after the Battlefield routine.
    Ade- ^^
    Brandon- has NEVER been in the bottom (could indicate very strong base). Of course, this is a double edged sword, as many may think he is 'safe.' Arguably, the second most memorable dance of the evening. Likely to pull some of the younger voters with a hard hip-hop routine (as for the younger girls, they could likely go to Jason as well). *May* resemble Joshua to some voters this season, which could help. Probably the *best* overall dancer on the show. Also, judges have not all gushed over him like they did with Will, which generally turns off voters.
    Jeanine- Was in bottom 3 with partner Phillip, but may have picked up some of his fanbase since his elimination. Memorable routine. Likeable 'character' overall.
    Evan- seems like he may have the largest fanbase overall. Again, this can help/hurt you, as voters may become complacent. Also, the judges continue to say they want 'more,' which could motivate or discourage some voters. Has been in bottom 3 with partner Randi; could have picked up her voters. Memorable solo, not-so-memorable partnering.
    Jeanette- seems to have a decent fanbase; we know Florida is voting for the girl! Last week she performed a great solo, this week was blah. Same with partnering dances. People seem to like her though!
    Jason- Cute, young, and seemingly available= probably garners a good chunk of the young vote. Benefits from cool broadway number (expand that base upwards) and performing the last dance of the evening (with a cool theme, and hip-hop to boot).
    Kayla- people seem to love or hate her, probably a result of the drool fest the judges have exhibited over her lines every week. Normally, voters do not like to be told who the 'best. dancer. ever.' is (see Will). Good dancer, however, and likely benefits from having the last dance of the evening (although Jason will probably benefit more). Some people find her cocky, which is a turn-off for many voters. The presence of her grandparents (and how cute and happy they are) makes Kayla more endearing.

    Bottom 2's:
    Men: Ade & ? (Jason or Brandon)
    going home: Ade ... only because I think Melissa will be the primary beneficiary of the emotional BC dance (people remember her). Ade was also in the bottom 2 last week.
    Women: Jeanette & Kayla
    this is a toss-up, but at least I am sure that Melissa is safe.


    Thoughts?!?!

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